The Case for Waterboarding (very interesting article)

FrontpageMag ^ | Sept. 29, 2006 | Vasko Kohlmayer

[FairOpinion]

I think NO method should be off the table, as long as it's effective to obtain information from terrorists.

[FairOpinion]

The excellent closing paragraph of the article:


"And as far as opponents of waterboarding are concerned, I have these questions to ask: Are a few moments of a terrorist’s discomfort more important than the lives of the innocents he seeks to destroy? Are two minutes of Moussaoui’s anguish worth more than the three thousand lives lost on 9/11? Does his momentary pain override a lifetime of hurt of those left behind?


If you can’t answer in the affirmative then hold your peace."

[dennisw]

I think NO method should be off the table, as long as it's effective to obtain information from terrorists.

It's a total lie that water boarding is torture. It's so effective that real torture is unnecessary just so long as one does the water boarding with a good doctor monitoring it so the person doesn't drown.

[FairOpinion]

"It's a total lie that water boarding is torture. It's so effective that real torture is unnecessary just so long as one does the water boarding with a good doctor monitoring it so the person doesn't drown."

====

Yes, the article makes that very point.

"Waterboarding, on the other hand, is fleeting in duration with the actual discomfort lasting seldom more than a couple of minutes. And since a man can be safely deprived of oxygen for at least twice as long, there is almost no risk of long-term harm. The possibility of injury is further reduced by the fact that the procedure calls for no direct physical contact between the subject and his interrogators. Not even as much as pushing or chest slapping is required at any time, making waterboarding one of the safest and least confrontational among interrogation methods. Involving the lowest risk of long-term harm and the least amount of cumulative discomfort, it is also the most humane. Most importantly, it is the most effective."



What's the matter with our lawmakers that they don't even try to understand what's going on, just trying to score political points?!

[Iris7]

Admiral Stockdale said that McCain was routinely and repeatedly tortured during his captivity in North Viet Nam. Those people are experts at that sort of thing. Probably that is why McCain is so hostile to waterboarding.

Waterboarding makes mortal fear. Those of you who have not experienced mortal fear cannot know what I am saying.

The NVA used near drowning and were very ingenious with ropes. Mortal fear, true terror, works. Wouldn't take but a few minutes to show you what I mean.

[EQAndyBuzz]

I think the ultimate in non-lethal and non-painful torture would be total sensory deprivation.

Imagine if you couldn't see, hear, smell, taste or feel anything.

[Iris7]

I am not saying that physical interrogation, putting someone in mortal terror, is not necessary on occasion. You either have to use mortal terror on a fellow who would kill you, your friends, and your family if he could, or, you can let his friends kill you, your friends, and your family.

Simple, really. Being killed is not at all like watching a TV show. Not the slightest bit.

[FairOpinion]

What people keep ignoring is that we are dealing with TERRORISTS and the informaion we gain from them is to save thousands, perhaps even millions of innocent lives.

Mortal fear of a terrorist vs. thousands of innocent lives -- I don't think there should even be a debate, the answer is so clear.

[Mrs. P]

One more morning where I'm awakened to the sound of a noxious voice on the radio. Today it was John McCain crowing about a victory, so I knew there would be not so good news.

From the article: Viewed in this light, waterboarding may well be the most just form of interrogation for this kind of criminal, because it gives him a taste of his own evil. The difference is that his anguish is stopped the moment he expresses a desire for it to be so. This, tragically, is something which his victims would never be granted. That's good enough for me.

[Tom D.]

This is an excellent, if somewhat long, article from the Atlantic Monthly on this point. That Magazine is hardly a right wing tool:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200310/bowden

[DCPatriot]

I don't see how waterboarding Moussaoui would have prevented 9-11...since nobody knew of the plot.

He could have confessed to a plot to contamminate all the spinach...IOW...made something up.

With Mohammed, it was different since they knew his rank in the terrorist network.

[Iris7]

Sensory deprivation has been tried. Doesn't work at all. Can make a person crazy though. People have hacked solitary confinement, never hearing a human voice once, for many years.

The "oublette" business is like that.

"The castle has a dungeon but the prisoners who died there were sure to have been breakers of the law rather then prisoners of war. The dungeon is bottle necked, built purposefully so that there was no escape. Being fourteen feet from top to bottom the prisoners were literally thrown in, many suffering from broken bones in the fall. There are no windows down there so it was extremely dark and stuffy. When full, as it often was, the prisoners were barely able to move and were left to die in their own bodily wastes. Dug into the dungeons floor was an Oublette, a French word meaning to forget or cast aside. It was a small compartment roughly the size of an average human being, which afforded no room to stretch. No one survived for long after the lid was placed into position. The prisoners were neither fed nor watered; what a horrible lingering death it must have been."

Oublettes were also set up with some room and with some food and water. Didn't want to let the fellow off easy.

[gdc314]

I'm so incredibly sick of McCain's BS...

[Iris7]

I am not saying that true mortal terror should not be used. Waterboarding instills this quickly and without leaving visible marks.

A nasty business though.

Worse business is letting your own people die because you are squeamish.

[Recon Dad]

Mortal fear, and pure terror is the key to unlocking people's mouths, not pain.
Do you or anyone else remember the short story or it could have been a TV show whose premise was the unlocking of a captives most dreaded fear and then presenting them with it.
Why can't McCain make this leap of logic.

[cliff630]

MCain was a high value captive; not that he had much info but his father was a 4 star Admiral. The Viet Cong saw him as a choice captive to be used bargaining material.

Consequently, I'm not sure he was routinely tortured; On the contrary, it was to the VC's advantage to keep him in relatively good shape.

Wouldn't MCain want to create the image that he was tortured horribly but failed to give them any info?

This position allows him to build his own image. So why wouldn't he want to say WATERBOARDING doesn't work, so he could say we should not use it.

On the contrary WB does work and if it had been used on him he would have yielded. Is there any proof tht the VC used WB?

[Bluebird Singing]

Wouldn't MCain want to create the image that he was tortured horribly but failed to give them any info?

McCain: Hmmmm, could it be NARCISSISTIC Personality Disorder?

It's all about him.

[AdvisorB]

These guys are going to be very upset at that comment.

This bumper sticker is courtesy of Rushbo and his EBI.

[syriacus]

Biden just said, on Imus, that waterboarding was considered the most severe torture under Pol Pot.

Dear Senator Biden, Saddam was a dictator like Pol Pot was a dictator. Good thing we got rid of him.

[syriacus]

Does his momentary pain override a lifetime of hurt of those left behind?

It would seem that waterboarding would do no lasting damage.