Posted on 09/18/2006 4:02:04 PM PDT by DaveyB
You don't have Freedom of Speech. I remember when Clinton instated the don't ask don't tell policy while I was stationed in Germany. Some of the soldiers simply couldn't resist and put signs up in protest. They were told they were not allowed to state their opinions and that if they didn't take the signs down they would get written up. How much further our commander would have taken it, I don't know but it was generally agreed by all we no longer had that right.
The right to bear arms. I know that it may seem weird but soldiers living in barracks have this right compromised. They are allowed to own a firearm but if they live in the barracks they must have it locked up in the armory and are not permitted to keep it in their rooms. This is not the same for someone who lives in housing. They are permitted to keep firearms in government housing.
Those are two instances that I can remember.
I don't know how long ago you were in, but as someone who got out of the army just 9 months ago I can only tell you one thing: Believe it!
Read the book, The End Of Faith, if you can stomach it. It will frighten the heck out of you.
To be fair, German Chancellor Angela Merkel did come out in defense of the Pope. But that's it. My respect for her has gone up greatly, while my respect for other Western "leaders" has fallen even lower. Yes, I include Pres. Bush who has been completely silent on the whole matter.
FARROCKAWAY'S TAKE
Senate to Vote on 9/18/06
To Force Armed Services Chaplains
To Censor The Name of Jesus
From Any Prayer Offered Outside the Chapel
Go ballistic. Do it 9/17 and 9/18. By September 19th it will be too late. Thats all the time your government has given you.
Chaplain Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt has been convicted by a US Navy Court Martial of praying in the Name of Jesus just days ago. You read that right. A US Navy clergyman, an Episcopal Chaplain, was convicted for the crime of uttering a sectarian prayer (instead of the government-approved prayer) at a religious ceremony outside his allotted 1 hour on Sunday morning where its still legal to use the Name which is above Every Name: Jesus Christ.
Is this being done so fast that its bewildering to you? You bet it is. Thats the plan and dont forget it.
The Navy claimed the Chaplain disobeyed a direct order. That order? To observe only non-sectarian prayers when praying anywhere except his allotted sectarian worship service. The Navy has taken upon itself the authority to edit prayers. It ordered Klingenschmitt to conform or face court-martial. Full of the Honor of Jesus, Klingenschmitt chose the court-martial.
But even though this is the very first youve heard of this, you have precisely 24 hours to assimilate it, check into it, and then do something about it before it becomes written into law. Courteous of your government, huh?
The Senate is so pleased with this court-martial for praying in Jesus Name, they have decided to enshrine it in law all before you, the unsuspecting public, can act. Senator John Warner, Lindsay Graham, and Carl Levin, have a bill they are working on which would make it law for all the Armed Forces Chaplains to be forced to obey this new rule. They cloak it in such nice terms! How can anyone disagree? It sounds like this.
In situations other than theological services or sectarian ceremonies when a prayer is offered, the policy shall require chaplains to be sensitive to and respect the diversity of faiths represented.
Translation? If you use Jesus Name, the Navy can court-martial you, maybe wipe out your retirement benefits, fine you, at very least. Thats what this gun-barrel language just thrust at Chaplain Klingenschmitt is trying to do. They convicted him. Can you imagine? Convicted for praying in Jesus Name? Hes cleaning out his desk right now for daring to honor his Lord over the Navy, a Navy which has set itself up as God.
In a totally bizarre statement, while attempting to uphold Navy Secretary Donald C. Winters new rules, the Navy judge at the proceedings decided that it was permissible to punish Klingenschmitt for praying because worshipping in public, was not the same as, public worship. Navy rules permitted prayer in one, not in the other.
Oh. That makes sense. Right?
No, that is Alice-in-Wonderland, communist, double-speak. It is an insult, a slap in the face to the veterans of this great country who fought and lived, fought and died, so that our clergy would have the right to pray in Jesus Mighty and Glorious Name any God-blessed or any God-damned time they wanted to.
What did this guy actually do? Facts: He went and stood in uniform in front of the White House, at an event he had written permission from his CO to be at, uttered a prayer in Jesus Name, and said exactly nothing else to anybody. Thats it.
Reporters were there, he ignored them, didnt say one word to them. Thats what the man did. Thats illegal behaviour for a United States Military Chaplain. Had he not used the name Jesus, making his prayer sectarian, he would not be court-martialed right now.
By-by retirement? By-by honorable record? Monthly fine? Letter of reprimand?
Americas historic enemies have always wanted and tried to censor prayers. The American soldier has always fought to protect the freedom of conscience of her Christian clergy. But get this: the Senate is planning to vote on this Tuesday, September 19th. Nice publicity they gave in order to solicit veterans reactions, huh? Oh, yeah, were going to make it illegal to pray in Jesus Name tomorrow. We wont put it quite like that of course. No need to put out a press release. Its just some language in a bill somewhere. Just reinforcing what the Navy rules already are. Yeah, weve already enforced court-martial on this. No big deal.
Ill call this what it is.
Infamy.
Treason.
Call Senator John Warner and tell him, The new language we are dictating to you, Senator, is as follows: Chaplains may pray according to their conscience and according to their specific faith whenever and however they see fit, whenever prayers are offered.
Tell him if he doesnt like it? Hes a traitor.
Ask for Warner: 888-355-3588
Ask for Bush: 202-456-1414
While there is still a little bit of America left to fight for, fight for it.
I retired from the Army in 1999, but I believe it..It's just so hard to believe..
So what is a clergyman/chaplain in a military unit supposed to do if he is forced by the military to cease praying?
"But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."
Matthew 10:33
If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.
1 Peter 4:14
Let's get the facts straight. The chaplain (I am a retired Army chaplain, by the way) was tried and convicted for wearing his uniform at a political rally after receiving a direct order from his commanding officer not to. The praying in Jesus name, which I am a strong believer in, is a smoke screen. Please, get the facts straight before declaring a Christian jihad on the Defense Department.
ping
I did 45 in a thirty and didn't get pulled over so there must not be a speed limit...
The UCMJ is structured such that one voluntarily gives up many civilian rights when the oath is taken. For example, how often does the military have trial by a jury of one's peers? It doesn't. There is NJP and courts martial. Ever hear of charges being dropped because a suspect wasn't read their Miranda rights? That's because they do not apply, at least not in the same way.
But He also said that we are to be subject to the governing authorities. If the governing authorities order me to not attend political rallies in uniform, I am obligated to follow that order. The chaplain did not comply with that order. Again, this has nothing to do with the format of his prayer.
The chaplain was NOT court martialed for praying in Jesus name! Why can't people get the facts staight?
Are you saying that chaplains are NOT prohibited from praying in Jesus name?
If so, that is GREAT news!
They are not, and never have been. Having said that, at gatherings that are more "civil" in nature, like a change of command ceremony invocation, or a holiday ceremony, chaplains are asked to respect the fact that there will be people of all stripes, and we were asked to be sensitive to that...and on those rare ocassions. we might pray something like, "in the Father's name" or "in Your holy name" - but in religious services, whether in garrison or in the field (or on board ship) we are free to do as our conscience dictates.
The same as any other Freedom. You practice it without infringing upon any other person's rights. A Christian can be a Christian whenever they choose but they cannot force say for instance a Jew to practice Christianity nor prohibit them from practicing Judaism. I would say you can practice wherever but as long as you don't violate private property rights. All Rights are respectful of one another.
Other than that the government is not to make any laws concerning religion. It seems like a pretty straight-forward thing but with all the PC these days you really do have to think about exactly what "infringe" means.
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