Posted on 09/16/2006 10:05:06 PM PDT by neverdem
Idea Lab
In July, as rifle-wielding militias in Iraq slaughtered civilians, the United Nations held a conference on small arms. The conference aimed at creating an international treaty limiting the trade in small arms — weapons designed for personal use, which cause about a thousand deaths worldwide each day. But after intensive debate, and despite the support of many nations, even the normally sunny Kofi Annan had to admit that the conference had collapsed or, as he put it, had “ended without agreeing on an outcome.”
One group represented at the conference had reason to celebrate: the National Rifle Association, which in the past decade has been refining its own version of globalization. At first, the group openly fought gun control abroad, but that enabled gun-control advocates to accuse local gun lobbies of selling out to America. In Brazil, the N.R.A. tried a new approach. Brazil has the most gun deaths annually of any country, and last October it held a referendum on a nationwide gun ban. In the run-up to the vote, polls suggested that more than 70 percent of Brazilians supported the ban. Then the Brazilian gun lobby, which previously had emphasized the desirability of gun ownership, began running advertisements that instead suggested that if the government could take away the right to own a weapon (though Brazilians have no constitutional right to bear arms), it could steal other civil...
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Around the world, the N.R.A. is finding that a rights-based approach translates into many languages. As the N.R.A.’s executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, says: “They made the rights argument [in Brazil.] They made the argument that this was being taken away from the people.” He pauses. “It caught Iansa” — the International Action Network on Small Arms — “by surprise. They already had the Champagne on ice.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
He seems upset with the idea of a right to self defense. I hope this essay is translated for the folks in Darfur who are being attacked by the Janjaweed, fellow Muslims, but of Arab ancestry in Sudan.
Jamil Bittar/Reuters
Destroying guns in Brail, Dec. 9, 2004. Later, the N.R.A. helped defeat a gun ban.
Bigger Boards, with Bigger nails.
"In Brazil, the N.R.A. tried a new approach"
Is the NRA the smartest, most effective political group or what?
How stupid can the NYT be? A quick argument which would totally destroy this idiotic idea:
UN bans guns, then North Korea and Iran never have to worry about money again, the trillion dollar gun industry would be booming. Criminals would have all of them, nobody else would be able to defend themselves.
I think the Mob today would have loved liberals, the UN and the ACLU, they would do all of their dirty work.
ping
"Lets ban lathes and drill presses, just to make sure. And chemistry textbooks.
Bigger Boards, with Bigger nails."
I think the cat is out of the box.
My guess is that it would be easier to produce guns than high quality cigarettes now days.
Tobacco has a complicated curing process, that takes (I think) years.
As much as the media plays it, it's not about duck hunting!
Also, found the same case against the NRA (almost word for word) in Brazil last Oct in the CS Monitor.
You can run off a functional, reliable submachine gun (MAC series, Grease Gun, or Sten) or assault rifle (a real one, a FA AK) in a modern machine shop in under a day by yourself, given the plans and the state of the CNC art; less if you have other people helping.
The plans are everywhere, CNC rigs keep getting cheaper and cheaper; I'm seeing used ones under $3K these days.
That is what I thought, what about materials?
Sheet steel for the receivers, some billet to make internal parts from, some generic springs and some spring steel for the workings, and 416 stainless steel bar stock for the barrels.
In other words, nothing you couldn't easily and legitimately get without anyone noticing. You could even use a lesser steel for the barrel if you didn't care too much about long range accuracy or if you don't care how long the weapon lives.
Put it to you this way - if you have a shop that can turn out, say, internal vehicle engine parts like pistons or pushrods, you can turn out guns almost as easily.
Better yet, if you can make billet/chrome Harley accessories, you can make guns with the exact same materials and equipment.
Finally, if you're in dire straits and civilization has collapsed, you can make a reusable (if not particularly safe) single shot 12ga shotgun out of two pieces of pipe, a board or some wood, and a large nail. Takes about ten minutes to make - (it's considered a form of zip gun, though it's simpler than the classic zip gun, and thus is *highly* illegal in most jurisdictions - but this is to be used only after the fall of civilization, so it's immaterial, right?).
I have tried to use this argument for a few years, but when I ran into blank looks, I was hesitant to push, because I'm not a machinist.
So the cat is out of the bag, this is the 21st century, and to think that if a teen could make a zip gun in 1950 he couldn't produce guns in the 21st century is silly.
I've handled the Sten, it was easy to produce generations ago, I have to assume a modern crime enterprise could produce better models quicker.
"Finally, if you're in dire straits and civilization has collapsed, you can make a reusable (if not particularly safe) single shot 12ga shotgun out of two pieces of pipe, a board or some wood, and a large nail. Takes about ten minutes to make "
I'm a plumbing contractor and an experienced shooter, so I'm okay with that stuff.
My real interest is that the gun control issue really does only affect the law abiding.
The crime world will always have their guns.
"Then the Brazilian gun lobby, which previously had emphasized the desirability of gun ownership, began running advertisements that instead suggested that if the government could take away the right to own a weapon (though Brazilians have no constitutional right to bear arms),..."
This journalist has the common misconception that rights are "granted" by governments rather than simply being acknowledged by them. The fact that consititution drafters fail to mention some right does not imply that the state need not recognize and respect it. This is the point of the much overlooked and dismissed 10th amendment of the US constitution. Perhaps the Brazilian constitution has a similar acknowledgement, but even if it does not, the point still holds: natural rights are not a "creature" of the state but a prior possession of the people that a state ignores or abrogates at its peril.
Well, a while back, there was some guy in England that got caught cranking out 1911's from steel billets on his CNC machine, complete with Colt markings and all. He could turn out about three a day. Completely indistinguishable from the actual Colt product, or so it was reported.
Teens made zip guns in the 50s and showed them off to their friends. Teens today make plastic explosive (a harder task) and blow up schools instead.
So, in short, you could crank out perfectly servicable firearms with a modestly equipped home machine shop. Something that should be noted - many home machine shops (not the Garage Mahal type, even) have *more* manufacturing capability (in terms of the ability to make different things) than Colt had in 1912.
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