Posted on 09/14/2006 12:57:54 PM PDT by 300magnum
WASHINGTON - A rebellious Senate committee defied President Bush on Thursday and approved terror-detainee legislation he has vowed to block, deepening Republican conflict over a key issue in the middle of congressional campaigns.
Sen. John Warner (news, bio, voting record), R-Va., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, pushed the measure through his panel by a 15-9 vote, with Warner and two other GOP lawmakers joining Democrats. The tally set the stage for a showdown on the Senate floor as early as next week.
Thanks. I plan to do my calling tomorrow too.
By the way I remember that he didn't vote for at least one of the Impeachment Charges, even though he was one of the managers.
Grrr. I wish I could punch him in the nose. I bet he would cry.
What make makes the enemy the enemy is he is the aggressor who attacked us. WE did not start this war. What tactics he uses are irrelevant to what MAKES him the Enemy. What matters is that we DEFEAT him with as few American lives lost as possible.
Anything the Government can do can be abused. This "logic" is merely the rationalizations of people who think if they JUST ignore this problem it will magically go away.
Based on THIS "logic" we should dismantle the FBI because the Government has abused those powers before. Same with the Border Patrol since someone MAY abuse their powers some day.
To play this "What if" game means you advocate the Government NEVER do ANYTHING because it might someday be abused! It nonsense's pseudo intellectual rationalization and nothing more.
Nothing in life is ever perfect. Demanding Perfection NOW is merely the intellectual cop out of people who want to DO nothing and are vainly thrashing around looking for an excuse to DO nothing.
It is nice feel good sloganeering and phsycobabble to demand we somehow have to live up to higher standards. Too bad the real world does not work like a conflict avoidance seminar. We need to worry about winning. The Blame American First crowd here is merely flail aground desperately for some way to avoid actually having to SUPPORT our efforts to win the war. If they had REAL concerns they could of brought them up to the White House behind the sences. This is cheap Political PR grandstanding and nothing more. This isn't at all about Principals. It about Senate Media whores seeking Junk Media face time.
Just another example of the usual Senate RINO excusing making and rationalization to find a way to avoid having to come out and ACTUALLY SUPPORT the President ONE time.
Unfortunately, your side NEVER bothers to define torture. SO any little third world thug can CLAIM he was tortured because some guard made hims stay up all night. Our enemies know this weakness. They train how to use it. We captured training manuals in Afghanistan telling how to use our own press against us.
Define Torture and we maybe have something to talk about. However the Surrender Now Democrat Lite Republicans NEVER do that. Instead it all happy talk and pseudo intellectual Blame America First sloganeering. Until the Surrender Now Clowns McCain/Warner/Gahrams accurately DEFINES their terms all this sloganeering from them is just is so much absurd noise.
If you or I were a defendant in a trial and classified information were to come up, these would be the rules that would apply: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=evidence%20and%20classified%20information&url=/uscode/html/uscode18a/usc_sec_18a_02000006----000-.html
"When the United States has not previously made the information available to the defendant in connection with the case, the information may be described by generic category, in such forms as the court may approve, rather than by identification of the specific information of concern to the United States."
Now, if these "Procedure(s) for cases involving classified information" work for ME, a citizen, IN COURT; ...then it aughta work just fine and dandy for some foreign terrorist thug, Lindsey-boy.
(Don't these guys ever just stop and ask themselves: "Hey, what the hell am I doing?" LOL .... if it wasn't so pathetic, it'd be funny.)
I wouldn't doubt if Graham said that..
BTW..on Hairball..they are gloating because Powell came out for the McCain group...while ONLY Rice came out for Bush's legislation...
Of course, they don't mention that Powell is on McCain's campaign staff either.
LOL and sue you as well.
All three men should know better. They've all worn our military's unifrom. McCain knows first hand that torture is effective, but POTUS is not asking for anything close to that type of torture.
I have reached the conclusion that ANY connection between their reality and ours is purely coincidental.
Call any department at the RNC and voice a complaint
They will not ignore us
Well, people will argue till the end of time about whether proportionality was judged correctly on that day. My opinion is that nobody really knew what the first bomb would do, and when it did all that and the Japs still wouldn't surrender, it was a ligitmate case of 'well, hell, if that doesn't stop then what else will but a second helping?'. It was act of desperation to get a very ugly and costly war to end. In desparate times, survival overules everything, we can agree on that.
But we are a million miles from desperation right now. This isn't The Alamo. They don't have us surrounded, and so a survival mindset that involves reverting to savagery isn't necessary IMHO. And I believe nor will it ever be with regard to this particular enemy in the future. In fact, in this war, I believe maintaining our dignity in the face of the enemy is the surest way to defeat him. To treat him as he treats us serves only to fatten his ranks.
I wanted to post the phone numbers and email addresses for McCain, Graham, Warner, Collins, et al, but I can't even get on the Senate website. I'll bet they are getting the message.
McCain/Graham - the Donner Party.
Whoa........that could be taken two ways......LOL
Did she mention that Bill Clinton met with liberal bloggers the other day? He's not even running yet he had a two hour luncheon he hosted for the blogs.
I know we probably wouldn't agree on a definition, but I agree that, as Rice said in her letter to Warner, a definition is necessary if there is to be any progress on this issue.
Of course, another thing that I'd like to know, as a scientist, is whether these defined methods are actually effective. That seems to be a sticking point that even military spokesmen are unsure about. It's one thing sacrificing one's values for the Greater Good, but it helps to know if it's actually worth it.
Which moron talking head is spewing this garbage? I keep hearing this from the Neo Isolationist hide our head under the sand and ignore the problem and it will all just go away crowd. Totally irrelevant that they cannot "kill us all". All they have to be able to do is kill a significant number of us.
A series of strikes like 09-11 would so cripple our economy and cause such a political impossible to deflect counterreaction that it would virtually destroy our current form of Government. If you are upset by pathetically minor changes in US laws NOW, what do you think the reaction of average americans is going to be to a nuke going off in LA is going to be?
Hiding our heads under the sand hoping the problem will go away is NOT a viable solution. The viable solution is to kill enough of these bastards to force the rest to knock it off before they get to the point they can seriously hit us.
We have been lucky so far. The Weak in the Knees RINO solution is to assume we will continue being lucky. Sorry I don't like those odds.
As for the istorical references. Neither Nazi Germany nor Imperial Japan ever were capable of a significant attack on the US Homeland. The Terrorists all ready have hit it at least once. (09-11-01)
Wishing the problem would go away because you find the whole thing such an emotionally distressing interruption to your comfortable little life is a perfectly acceptable personal defense mechanisim. It is nonsense as Government policy.
You're writing style is so hyper it makes me feel short of breath to read it. Decaf might help.
As far as the definition of torture, that's really the trick to the whole issue. Torture is a subjective concept; it isn't a clear crime like murder or arson. The perpetrator, victim, and methods are all variables that aren't absolute. The until you start getting downright medieval, it's hard to know where the line is.
That makes it a very easy word to turn into a weapon. From an English language standpoint, there's no difference between thumbscrews, a mock execution, and harsh language. Some people might consider one, two or all three of these torture. From a linguistic standpoint, they're not necessarily wrong.
There really isn't a good way to solve that issue, other than to treat prisoners in a way that the vast majority of people would see as fair and humane.
And to take far fewer prisoners. That, and executing the al-Qa'ida prisoners we do have, would solve the question of torture. There's no reason to treat prisoners inhumanely; neither is there a reason to avoid a tribunal and justice.
I am getting madder. Our water is still OFF. It's citywide. Going on 24 hours now without water.
Well that sucks .. the whole city?
I didn't know that Powell is on McCain's campaign staff. (Although after today, it's no surprise.)
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