Mapping the New Europe

The Brussels Journal ^ | 09/07/2006 | Chris Gillibrand

[Republicain]

Ever since the Germans started using their word Lebensraum in connection with their policy towards Eastern Europe before the Second World War, one has to be suspicious when the word “Raum” is used in any policy connection by the Germans. For instance, Raumordnung can mean “spatial planning” if you want it to sound innocent and “area order” if you don’t. “Raum” can also mean territory. A “Raum” can also mean something as small as a habitat (as in the biological sense of “Lebensraum”), but the Germans have the same word as the British for region, and a “Raum” can also be something bigger than a region (which has its political expression in the German Länder.

But when Germans start to use the idea of “the European Area Development Concept” which includes chunks of the United Kingdom, one has to get really jumpy. This could also be translated as “European Spatial Development Concept” which, if anything would be worse.

So when it was reported in The Telegraph this week that “New EU map makes Kent part of the same nation as France”, I thought it was worthwhile going back to some of the sources.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Is the map real? The borders are smooth lines--and aren't straight, and some of the regions have barely any land while others are full of land.

[stefan10]

The reality in europe today is that we have no borders anymore and so the former borders and countries have less and less influence and regions get more important.

For example for my home region in germany luxembourg france and belgium are much more important than east north or south germany in terms of trade infrastructure projects.... . They found regional organizations that do not fit anymore in the old concept of countries and state.

For north germany scandinavia is more important than bavaria and for bavaria austria more than NRW and so on and on.


especially the regions near a border see huge changes after the shengen agreement was established. The former countries will become more and more unimportant or in many cases they are unimportant today.


We have a common market in most cases a common currency common laws no borders. In the end it is the same with states in the US. European countries will become ( or even are) as states in the US.

[PAR35]

One of the maps (the one below the old Nazi plan for part of Poland) seems to show England slightly larger than its largest European extent, either Hansa or the Swedish kingdom at about its peak, the Hapsburg enpire, slightly offset to the north and west (or is that the Greater German Reich?), and an enlarged Spanish kingdom.

Some attention to historical reality there.

As historically, Italy and Germany are split among other influences

[hershey]

According to Mel Brooks on the Dick Cavett show last night, The Producers is premiering in Austria in '07. That should be interesting.

[AdAstraPerArdua]

'The reality in europe today is that we have no borders anymore and so the former borders and countries have less and less influence and regions get more important.'

You try getting into the UK from any other part of europe without your passport and you'll find a friendly english bobby pointing a H&K MP5 at you! It's true that people can wander from euro country to euro country, but at least the brits have kept control of their borders. We should do the same!

[SkyPilot]

This is the map in your article.

People should remember this one:

The maps are going to change, and the Europeans are on the outs.

[stefan10]

Comming from a region very near to several borders i and the people here really enjoy and benefit from the present developments.

I guess nobody here misses the old borders or the german mark.

We all know that the UK as an island in combination with their history is a unique country within the EU but i would accept every bet that in the long run the pound will be history as all the other special rules that the british people still like at the moment.

The pressure of a bigger EU of 25 will be much higher as it was in the former EU of 15. We all know that the institutions and rules do not longer fit to the reality we face and so after some years of crises and pain the countries as the UK or also poland will face the hard reality to sink the ship or to accept agreements they would not even discuss today.

In the end we will see a more integrated EU core europe or a more integrated bigger EU but one thing is sure there is no way back.

[gotribe]

Hey, leave those state borders just the way they are. I like seeing the Welcome signs when I cruise along the interstates. And I like seeing the 65 mph switch to 70 mph in some of those states.

[stefan10]

LOL i do not think that the germans would really accept a speed limit at least a general speed limit.

We already had to sink our beer law that would be too much integration.

[M. Espinola]

The E.U. cartographers have been hard at work.

[starbase]

In the end we will see a more integrated EU core europe or a more integrated bigger EU but one thing is sure there is no way back.

I don't mean to be negative, but I'm very interested. These past two years have seen horrible confrontation with the booming Muslim masses in Europe, London blew up, Madrid blew up, Von Gogh was slaughtered in open daylight, France burned like a crepe brule' for ONE MONTH! Denmark was humiliated and intimidated and its embassies, which should be sacred, were trashed in several countries by blood thirsty Muslims. Parts of Denmark and Sweden can't be entered into by police, and several Dutch cities will soon have Muslim majorities.

Now my friend, given all that, don't you think it's strange to just sing about the lovely infrastructure projects and how smooth integration is going? Don't you think you are all in deep denial of the immediate future?

I mean this as a sincere question to find out what you think.

regards,

starbase

[bill1952]

As long as losing all seats but one in the UN doesn't bother anyone there, OK.

Don't hold on to the hypocrisy of stating that europe is more or less one entity and then still demand separate seats for all of those former states.

[AdAstraPerArdua]

'I guess nobody here misses the old borders or the german mark.'

You reckon? I know plenty of Germans who'd like their border controls back rather than relying on countries at the extremities of europe like Greece and Bulgaria looking after things.

As for the mark and it's detrimental effect on your economy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4082610.stm

The EU is an undemocratic socialist utopia that will never be fully accepted by the UK. The Brits have the strongest and most market economy in the EU and that's the way all the other eu countries need to go. Forget your job protectionism, your unrealistically high wages and your job for life. To compete you must be market lead, not socialist-lead. At least some of your politicians are starting to understand this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2010490,00.html

The longer you keep pretending the EU is anything other than socialist experiment in non-democracy and forced integration, the further you will fall behind market lead countries like mine and Britain.

[stefan10]

I said the people living in my region and that´s the main point i want to make. Region become more important than countries and states. NO german with a little knowledge of economic issues want the border back but stupid people are everywhere.

The same is true for the german mark. It is true that germany lost a comparative advantage against several countries that now enjoy the benefits of lower refinancing costs and a solid currency but germany as the world biggest export nation enjoys the advantages of lower currency risks and costs. The growth of the trade within the Euro zone underlines that .

The institutions of the EU of the 25 wil have to change and become more democratic because otherwise there will be nio chance to govern this project at all.

The main thing is that every country benefits from the EU in one way or the other and that´s the reason why every country wants to join or stay within the EU. Leaving the EU is no real option and the UK is the best example for that. First they founded a organization to counter the EU (EFTA) and then they were the first to join the EU after they realized that it works and is the better solution. After that day in 1973 they wine cry and enjoy their EU criticism but at the end of the day they knew that they have no choise.


"To compete you must be market lead, not socialist-lead. At least some of your politicians are starting to understand this:"

germany is the biggest export nation with the biggst trade surplus and the only G8 country winning market shares on the world market.
The main differences in terms of grwoth; employment and other macroeconomic numbers compared to the US or the UK are caused by the different growth numbers of domestic demand. The reunification created huge costs and high unemployment numbers. We still pay more than 4% of our GDP every year to overcome the real socialistic dream in the east. This has to be financed and the problem were higher taxes and higher costs for social security after adding one third to the population that never paid a single mark into the system.
So we had a complete different behavior of consumers. while american consumer showed and still show huge consumer spending financed with lower or even negative saving rates and by refinancing their homes after a unique housing boom. The german saving rate went up while household debt went down even with a negative development of disposable income according to moderate wage increases or even sinking wages. The problem is that even in the US the wage increases were very moderate because of the huge competition on the world market. So the "fuel" for the huge growth numbers consumer spending will slow down after the rates went up and the debt burden is at a historical maximum. A good thing is to look at the numbers which sections created jobs in the US and which sections lost jobs in germany and the other way round.

[stefan10]

There are huge problems in several european countries with the integration of foreing people mainly in bigger cities.

I do not know details about the situation in other countries as the netherlands or france but

1. the muslim immigration groups are different while germany mainly has turkish immigrants other countries have immigrants rom their former colonies from northern africa or other regions.

2. The main problem in germany was and is that we left these people alone in their parts of the city while the left parties enjoyed a multicultural dream and the conservatives simply denied the fact that germany is and was a nation of immigrants. Both created the problems we see today.

3. Germany has a muslim population below 3% and most of these people are secular given the fact that they are from turkey and the situation of these people is different. For example at my time at university there were several germans with a turkish heritage at my classes and there we no differences but we also have people in the third generation that do not speak real german.

4. In the end there are problems because many of these immigrants do not assimilate as easy as for example the huge number of polish or italian immigrants we had in our history but it is not as dramatic as someone could think.
During the last years the situation changed and the awareness of the problems not because of a terrorist threat more because of reports of women being killed because they did not follow the traditional rules and things like that.

[starbase]

Thanks for the response.

Yes, I'm aware that the "Muslim Problems" of Europe don't really apply to Germany. Atlantic Bridge has provided statistics in the past showing that more ethnic Germans from the East returned to Germany than Muslims immigrated in in recent years! I also know that Turks are cut from a different cloth than the other Muslim immigrants, and I recently read that, in order to find work, there are more Germans looking for work in Austria today than there are Muslims looking for work!

So it seems a Teutonic power bloc is guaranteed, which is good for Europe and good for the world.

But it's the other countries I was really asking about. But I guess I asked you what is really an unanswerable question. If I put on my fantasy future glasses, I see a powerful Germanic region which enjoys stability, growth, wealth, and cultural continuity, surrounded by trashy violent remains of once-great cultures overrun by outsiders who don't give a damn about where they're living. But perhaps this might only happen in the north, west, and south, but not in the East, where the Slavs are more raw and more hungry. They probably won't let things go that far. So the "future of Europe" might mean the "future of Germany and the East."

Nothing seems to be getting done to reverse this future, while everything seems to be speeding forward to establish it. I don't know either. Oh well, I guess time will tell.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Realistically, that could help Germany and the other EU states to compete with both the United States and what could become other superpowers (China and India most prominently, though India is rather lagging whether the Indian nationalists on this forum will acknowledge that or not). However, it would be completely understandable for Europeans to try to preserve their national and regional cultures. The American states do have some individual cultures of their own, but to a MUCH lesser extent than Europe (obviously).

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

The UK is one of the few countries not in Schengen (even Switzerland, which is decidely NOT part of the EU, is in Schengen). As for the UK having tight borders, they still have a free travel agreement with Ireland, and have illegal immigration, too. A United States of Europe could be useful for Europeans.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Although many freepers seem to think otherwise, the French riots were not religion based. It was more a social status conflict.