Posted on 09/05/2006 8:16:10 AM PDT by tang0r
Generally, there are two types of marijuana users. First is the most commonly stereotyped “stoner,” depicted in the media of movies (e.g. Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High) and television (e.g. Shaggy from Scooby Doo). These are the dead-end job, ambitionless abusers who ingest marijuana to escape their already dismal lives. They represent the image which is most often associated with marijuana use. Certainly, the average American high school is teeming with similar directionless pot-smoking losers, further cementing this public perception.
(Excerpt) Read more at prometheusinstitute.net ...
Baloney. They can't. You're confused.
"[T]he New Deal Court’s own constitutional justification for its radical expansion of the scope of federal power over commerce was that the congressional measures in question were valid exercises of the power granted by the Necessary and Proper Clause and were not direct exercises of the power to regulate commerce among the several states. That is, the Court did not simply and directly enlarge the scope of the Commerce Clause itself, as is often believed. Rather, it upheld various federal enactments as necessary and proper means to achieve the legitimate objective of regulating interstate commerce."
-- Stephen Gardbaum, Rethinking Constitutional Federalism, 74 Tex. L. Rev. 795, 807-08 (1996)
(How is it that I am able to support my argument with cites and quotes, yet you have nothing but your whiney opinion? Let's see some documentation from here on. I'm getting bored with these one-sided arguments.)
"and the standard becomes whether it affects their ability to enforce the regulation."
That's your standard, not mine. Whether the in-state activity actually affects the commerce or Congress' ability to regulate it is immaterial. It has the same effect, doesn't it? Quit trying to look for loopholes like an 8-year-old.
"Madison made no reference to a "dormant" commerce clause. That's your fiction."
He did. He just didn't call it that. Madison simply referred to it as a "negative and preventative provision" of the Commerce Clause.
Another Founding Father, Chief Justice to the U.S. Supreme Court John Marshall coined the phrase.
You need to realize that when you go to the Bible with a bias, you will always be able to squeeze some support out of its passages for that bias.
Your bias is especially egregious because it destroys families and subverts the republic that was given the blessing of God.
I would be on my knees in prayer about this if I were you.
RP, this whole stinking mess is an exercise in loopholes. You seem to be about the only one that doesn't realize it. Or maybe you do.
They are rituals. The true conversion to Christ occurs in the heart, just like a human marriage occurs in the heart, not by virtue of a license. No ritual is necessary but for the sight of men.
The heart of a man who likes to take cannabis is no different than the heart of a man that does not. The scriptures say God receives them all.
I fail to see what Hebrews 6:1-2 has to do with the necessity of rituals to validate the reception of Christ. Throughout the Gospels, the Acts and the letters, faith and the belief that leads to faith is the teaching of Jesus.
Regarding your cite of Matthew 3:16, John had been pretty clear that the baptism of water was symbolic and weak, that the One who was coming would baptize with the fire and the Holy Spirit.
According to the scriptures, Jesus Himself did not baptize by water. He taught faith and belief, which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that occurs within.
Physical actions reflect spiritual conditions and committments. Anyone who takes drugs to "find God" is probably lacking God, or at best, backsliding into their former carnal lifestyle.
No, they do not. You go into your closet to pray, not before men. One without the spiritual condition and commitment can still perform the ritual. Many, many do.
I don't know anyone who takes cannabis to "find God". That's a rubric you, and others who think themselves competent to judge the human soul, have created out of whole cloth to serve your prejudice.
That's your interpretation, not mine. God is merciful and just and has a plan to bring salvation to as many who want it.
But you said, clearly and repeatedly, that taking herbs for recreation denies one the Kingdom of Heaven. My "interpretation" for what you said is that everyone who takes an herb or substance as recreation and does it all during his physical life, is denied the Kingdom.
Do not try to crayfish out of your position and blame it on God.
Clearly there is a difference between alcohol and other drugs as pertains to spirituality...at least scripturally speaking. Abuse of alchol is physically harmful I agee. Smoking pot is also physically harmful. The difference (and I know you can't believe this) is that marijuana deludes the user into thinking that it is beneficial to them in terms of spirituality and health. It takes the user farther and farther away from God and into the mistaken notion that they have discovered the path to God, or a path, to God.
Clearly? Not at all, else the scriptures would have specifically named these "drugs", as no doubt (and medically speaking) they, especially cannabis, were in public use during that time.
I don't know anyone who smokes cannabis who does it for the beneficial effects on spirituality and health. Where do you get these notions? They do it as a recreational activity and to have fun in life.
Most things on Earth are physically harmful, even eating.
I am doing none of those things.
You condone the egregious actions of the war on drugs, with its destruction of our republic and the destruction of families. This means that, should your be put in charge, you will do the same in your zeal to force people to follow the dictates of your beliefs. Or you will be a hypocrite.
Read your own link. Nightshade has many medicinal and curative properties and is cultiveted and sold.
Lets cut to the chase. Is it your contention that our laws be based on the Christian Bible instead of the Constitution?
.
Congress is legislating the intrastate activity under the Necessary and Proper Clause since that intrastate activity has a substantial effect on the interstate commerce that Congress is constitutionally regulating.
Please explain how Congress is usurping the constitution. If you can.
I agree totally. That's why I'm being so patient with you.
Your bias is especially egregious because it destroys families and subverts the republic that was given the blessing of God.
Let me go back to my previous reply about this subject:
I am doing none of those things. And even if the "war on drugs" is as draconian as pro-drug people say it is, then each and every person who makes the choice to use illegal drugs also takes on the choice of living with the consequences of their behavior. The fact that they want to continue their selfish, self-indulgent behavior at the expense of family, finances and health should be a clear indicator of just how much control marijuana has over their lives. They put marijuana ahead of apparently everything else that is near and dear to them. That, my friend, is the very definition of idolatry.
I would be on my knees in prayer about this if I were you.
I will pray that all of those who are in pain and misery will realize that all pain and misery comes from sinning against God and that they should repent.
I take exception to fools using newspeak to define as
interstate commerce what would in a free world be a seed
grown through all generations from the earth through God
as a gift to all. You do not seek dialog, but domination.
I do not bow before your DEAmen gods hiding behind terrible
black masks of mystery on their terror campaign in the USA.
Regardless of whether anyone thinks that the commerce clause
grants congresss the power to prohibit anything their little
hearts desire, they have through generations failed to show
that they actually possess the power to do so. Rather, the
lack of any success coupled with an immense prison population
relegates all action taken by the government to terrorism
against its own citizenry.
The unlawful use of or threatened use of force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.--FBI definition of terrorism.
"Yet teens use alcohol 2:1 over pot. Why do you think that is?"
Simple! Nobody said alcohol was hard to get, just herb easier.
Moreover, nobody is testing teens for alcohol use to keep them from afterschool activities.
In addition, it will always be more socially acceptable.
I agree that true conversion occurs in the heart. But outward physical actions reflect inward spiritual conversion. You deny it, but that's exactly what the bible teaches:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin first begins in the heart. Outward sin then manifests because it has first been cultivated in the heart and mind. The converse, Godly behavior, is also true:
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
You're confused about Christianity because you don't understand something very basic. When one has the spirit of Christ they are supposed to let that spirit actually LIVE through them, at the expense of "self". That's what Paul means here:
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And this is what John means:
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
If one "knows" Christ, then they will be letting him live through them and they WILL be keeping his commandments.
As I pointed out, the bible unequivocally states that baptism and the laying on of hands are basic elements of Christianity and I believe it, not you.
According to the scriptures, Jesus Himself did not baptize by water. He taught faith and belief, which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that occurs within.
As I pointed out, Christ was baptized as an example to man and we are to follow his example:
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
But you said, clearly and repeatedly, that taking herbs for recreation denies one the Kingdom of Heaven. My "interpretation" for what you said is that everyone who takes an herb or substance as recreation and does it all during his physical life, is denied the Kingdom.
Again, you err because you don't know the scriptures. Jesus continually taught that there is an "elect" among men:
Mar 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
The role of the elect in God's millenial kingdom is to be a kingdom of priests:
Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
The rest are the "not elect". Those not called during their lifetime, but instead are resurrected after the 1000 years.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of the elect to a glorified, spiritual state. The 2nd resurrection is a physical resurrection of the "non-elect" after the 1000 year kingdom, the great white throne judgement:
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
In this period of judgement, men are taught from the "books" (the bible) and given the truth of the gospel from Christ. They are then judged based on their response to the "books" (according to their works).
So drug users, idolators and other non-repentant sinners will eventually be called and shown the truth.
You condone the egregious actions of the war on drugs, with its destruction of our republic and the destruction of families.
Let me say it again:
I am doing none of those things. And even if the "war on drugs" is as draconian as pro-drug people say it is, then each and every person who makes the choice to use illegal drugs also takes on the choice of living with the consequences of their behavior. The fact that they want to continue their selfish, self-indulgent behavior at the expense of family, finances and health should be a clear indicator of just how much control marijuana has over their lives. They put marijuana ahead of apparently everything else that is near and dear to them. That, my friend, is the very definition of idolatry.
This means that, should your be put in charge, you will do the same in your zeal to force people to follow the dictates of your beliefs. Or you will be a hypocrite.
I have no wish or desire to be "in charge" of any man made government. Every Christian should realize that the only truly good government will be the government established by Christ at his return. At that time, if I'm blessed enough to find a place in that government, I will follow the commands of my saviour Jesus Christ.
"They put marijuana ahead of apparently everything else that is near and dear to them. That, my friend, is the very definition of idolatry. "
Fascist! Because someone doesn't bow down before your
DEAmen god and throw away their cultural heritage they are
idolators? Because they possess, propagate or protect a
gift from God they make an idol of it? It is you that give
the demon substance with the heresy of evil having any
substance. Evil is nothing but the abscence of the presence
of God or the willfull action adverse to the expressed
will of God. Show me where there is an expressed will of
God which prohibits the use of herbs! There is none in
all of dietary law! There is however the following to the
contrary:
Ro 14:2-4
For one believeth that he may eat all things: but he that is weak, let him eat herbs.
Let not him that eateth, despise him that eateth not: and he that eateth not, let him not judge him that eateth. For God hath taken him to him.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own lord he standeth or falleth. And he shall stand: for God is able to make him stand.
In fact, the will of this gov't is to seek the eradication
of a gift from God. He saw that it was good, gave it to us
and you seek to thwart his will. This evil action spawned
black armored and black masked DEAmen that break down doors
in the night to carry off children from good Christian homes.
And, you sir, cheer! I pray that you seek peace.
Idolatry:
1 the worship of false gods, idolatry
a.of the formal sacrificial feats held in honour of false gods.
Please, stop sacrificing our children to the godless socialist state institutions for your misguided sense of purity through terror.
Ideally, yes. But any man made government can and will eventually corrupt the word of God to some degree so it matters little. The only truly good and perfect government will be the one established by Christ at his return.
Justice Thomas also said in the Raich case, "We normally presume that States enforce their own laws, and there is no reason to depart from that presumption here: Nothing suggests that California’s controls are ineffective."
I've never read a more gullible and ignorant statement. California's not enforcing their laws! They allow stores, for example, to sell medical marijuana when Proposition 215 never allowed for that. A great example of why Congress should not and cannot rely on the states when regulating interstate commerce.
Scalia had it right: "Congress need not accept on faith that state law will be effective in maintaining a strict division between a lawful market for “medical” marijuana and the more general marijuana market. “To impose on [Congress] the necessity of resorting to means which it cannot control, which another government may furnish or withhold, would render its course precarious, the result of its measures uncertain, and create a dependence on other governments, which might disappoint its most important designs, and is incompatible with the language of the constitution.”
"Congress is regulating an intrastate activity that has no demonstrable effect on the national market"
It does. Justice Thomas said it doesn't because he believes the state will control it. Bad assumption.
Even if the "war on drugs" is as draconian as pro-drug people say it is, then each and every person who makes the choice to use illegal drugs also takes on the choice of living with the consequences of their behavior. The fact that they want to continue their selfish, self-indulgent behavior at the expense of family, finances and health should be a clear indicator of just how much control marijuana has over their lives. They put marijuana ahead of apparently everything else that is near and dear to them. That, my friend, is the very definition of idolatry.
And, you sir, cheer! I pray that you seek peace.
Thank you for your prayer. My fervant desire is to seek peace.
"Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. "
Who is it that attempts to sit on the throne in judgment?
I am witness to the divinity of Jesus Christ as son of God.
I too, seek, as he taught, to be one of the children of God.
I seek peace, the peace he gave me, but the beast is at my
door and his mark is upon your hand as you type in favor of
war, his mark upon your forehead expressed in every thought
about the word as you seek reign rather than witness.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone;
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
ROFL!
The old duck and dodge. Drugs or quilting bees...it makes no difference. If Congress can regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce, Congress has usurped the Constitution.
By holding that Congress may regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce under the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution's limits on federal power."...Justice Clarence Thomas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But, but, mugs, -- you just don't understand, -- it what's they desire in their little hearts that counts.
Socialist's insist that Congress has the power to prohibit most anything if the 'desire' is there.
-- Whatever the people want, they can get, under majority rule socialism, -- and we get to hear this principle advocated every day, -- right here on FR..
And if you object, the dialog is over.
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