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We are Americans too, insist US Muslims (Huh?)
Times of India ^ | 9/3/06 | reuters

Posted on 09/03/2006 7:00:27 PM PDT by voletti

WASHINGTON: Ihsan Saadeddin is proud to be an American. But he's tired of having to prove it just because he's a Muslim too.

The Palestinian grocery store owner in Phoenix has called the United States home for 25 years and feels as American as the next guy. He met his wife in Arizona, sent his three children to public school and has a weakness for McDonald's.

But Saadeddin says the September 11 attacks were a tragic watershed which turned US Muslims from ordinary citizens into objects of suspicion and discrimination overnight.

He believes it is why he was questioned at the airport for 45 minutes last month and asked repeatedly if he supports terrorism.

"Being born in another country does not make me less American than the secretary of homeland security," Saadeddin said.

Estimates of the number of Muslim Americans vary between three and seven million, including Arabs, Iranians, South Asians, African Americans and many other communities.

News of domestic wiretapping, monitoring of mosques, immigration crackdowns, public support for racial profiling and bans on some Muslim scholars visiting the United States has made many Muslim Americans feel like targets of racism.

Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi from Dearborn Heights, Michigan, speaks for many when he complains that officials including President George W. Bush use terms such as "Islamo-fascism" to describe the militant threat. They say such terms are inflammatory and liken their faith to dictatorships.

"This type of thing really hurts," said Elahi, an Iranian-born Shi'ite religious leader.

Outreach efforts

US officials deny they unfairly target Muslim Americans and say community leaders have better access to top US officials than ever before. Outreach efforts include townhall meetings with law enforcement officers and training courses for officials by community members.

"It's obvious that Muslim Americans face civil rights challenges now that they never faced before," said Daniel Sutherland, who heads the civil rights and civil liberties office at the Department of Homeland Security.

"As the government, we need to engage better with Muslim Americans. And we're trying hard within our department and you'll see it with state and local governments," he said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: crymeariver; fascistisfascist; fifthanniversary; islamofascist; muslimamericans; quetheviolins; september12era; suras2thru9; yeahimfrommars
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To: cripplecreek; Chena

I'm beginning to think Chena's real desire is the attention, even the negative, that she has attracted. Whether she is shrewd or naive, any attempt to enlighten this person is a waste of time. I, for one, am done with it.


141 posted on 09/03/2006 10:44:00 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: John Valentine
Good post.

One need only look as far as Europe, to see where this naivete about "just another religion" leads.

England now boasts an active Jihadi fifth column, thanks to immigration and multicultural practices reflecting this Pollyanna attitude. On the Continent, the full spectrum of Jihad is at work, from daily intimidation of infidels up through the occasional mass murder....courtesy of this "most are patriotic Swedes/Dutchmen/Belgians/etc" mentality.

142 posted on 09/03/2006 10:53:09 PM PDT by RodgerD (Reject the Democrat's Migration Explosion Act of 2006. No to 70 million new third-world aliens.)
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To: voletti
"Being born in another country does not make me less American than the secretary of homeland security," Saadeddin said.

Of course not! OTOH, if your primary loyalty is to a Satanic death-cult of a "religion" then, yes, there is a serious doubt as to whether you can be a loyal American and the answer is obvious...... if you renounce jihadism, terrorism, fanaticism, and the worldwide oppression of the weak by Muslim leaders and Sheikhs, and all aspects of Islam that support said movements, then yes you can be a loyal American - but will you still be a Muslim?
143 posted on 09/03/2006 10:54:27 PM PDT by Enchante (There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Mainstream Journalism)
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To: John Valentine

My only close encounter with a Muslim extremist: Three days after 9/11, a Muslim waiter at a restaurant sat down at my table and argued the case FOR Bin Laden. He was a regular waiter for months, and I was a regular customer, so he thought he could sway me. He went on passionately about how Bin Laden "loves" the children of Iraq, and how Bin Laden was only trying to stop their deaths and starvation from sanctions by attacking the U.S. He believed Bush was pure evil, and that Clinton was a great president, etc. A MOST unpleasant conversation.

He was completely sold on Islamic extremist propaganda, and nothing I said could sway him. Nothing except this - when I said there was no telling what Bush would do now, especially if another terrorist attack occured, he visibly reacted. He was afraid of what could happen. In short, the threat of violence was the ONLY argument he respected and understood. No other reasoning worked.

A long story short, the FBI investigated him but he had already left the country. And that was my crash course in Islamofacist mindset 101.

So you may well be right in your general assessment about Islam, as the threat of violence seems to be the only thing to penetrate the extremist mind.


144 posted on 09/03/2006 11:11:51 PM PDT by drierice
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To: Idlewise
The reality is that islam and freedom do not mix and American muslims have to decide with us or against us.

You said it all. Thanks.

145 posted on 09/03/2006 11:12:46 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: drierice
Incidentally, I don't see that you've defended all Muslims here, just the ones who haven't resorted to violence.

I have to offer a correction to the way you formulated this idea.

You should have put it like this: "Incidentally, I don't see that you've defended all Muslims here, just the ones who haven't resorted to violence yet."

Because - when push eventually comes to shove and they have to prove their Muslim credentials to some flint eyed murderous SOB or lose their lives, does anyone REALLY think they will side with US?

146 posted on 09/03/2006 11:22:44 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: Chena
The peace loving Muslims HAVE told us in plain English where they stand. Stop and listen.

I have. I've read all four or five of them. Ask an Arab or Muslim how they feel about a Jew. I always gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.....til 9-11. Now I don't trust people like I used to. I still am civil to others no matter who they are, but I don't trust anyone. I wish no ill will to anyone, but don't tell me that there's alot of peaceful muslims. Action speaks louder than words. If the peaceful muslims want some credibility they better start "turning" on their "not so peaceful" counterparts.
147 posted on 09/04/2006 1:00:12 AM PDT by Not just another dumb blonde
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To: Chena; Jorge

Tks for providing the 'minority report' to this debate. You seem to set a a lot of faith in store by the muzlim folk you happen to know who possibly couldn't be evil jihadists etc. fair enough. The problem is izlam permits the ummah to LIE to advance izlam/ in the service of izlam. And this comes from the personal example and verbal approval (as reported in the Sunnah) of the profet himself. Now, that would gimme pause, I would say. I owuld take muzlim protestations to innocence, sweetness and reasonableness etc with a pinch of salt, if ya get what I mean.

From what Iunderstand, izlam competes the freedom of conscience and the freedom of expression in so many ways, I'd be wary of muzlims suddenly experessing conscience and defending first amendment rights all of a sudden. There maybe moderate muzlims buit there is no moderat izlam. And those'good muzlims' willing to accept a sanitized version of izlam wouldn't be muzlims anymore in the eyes of a clean majority of the ummah.

Read Mark styan sometime, just to get a hang of the demographic jihad being waged on the rest of the world by the izlamists. This includes the so-called moderates - apologists, enablers and reservoir for recruitment for the active jihadists.


148 posted on 09/04/2006 3:43:21 AM PDT by voletti (Awareness and Equanimity.)
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To: IIntense

Do the words "God's gonna take me home if I don't get a million dollars" ring a bell?


149 posted on 09/04/2006 5:12:40 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: voletti

But you subscribe to a bloodthirsty religion. Those who question you are entirely justified.


150 posted on 09/04/2006 5:33:16 AM PDT by RoadTest (- - - for without victory there is no survival. -Winston Churchill)
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To: Jorge
We repect most religous beliefs ,however we have always had ,at least until the 1970s, a strong and rational prohibition against those who practice human sacrifice,cannabilism,and even animal sacrifice.

Anything does not,and cannot , be allowed in a civilized world. Every culture has its limits.

151 posted on 09/04/2006 5:48:48 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: voletti
"Being born in another country does not make me less American than the secretary of homeland security," Saadeddin said.

Um, I sort of think it does since it means you cannot be president. Of course, you have plenty of opportunity to prove your patriotism and loyalty and then your kids, if they learn that old "assimliation" thing, can reap all the benefits.

152 posted on 09/04/2006 5:53:08 AM PDT by N. Beaujon (http://www.nbeaujon.com)
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To: RichInOC

Italian American's have it tough, too. Whaddaya gonna do? Maybe after like 17 generations they can both defeat the negative stereotypes. At least the Italians are funny and contribute great restarants and movies! If American Muslims want our respect they can feel free to earn it, the hard way. Try enlisting in the military, for example, and help us exterminate Islamonuts. Now there's a thought...


153 posted on 09/04/2006 5:58:14 AM PDT by N. Beaujon (http://www.nbeaujon.com)
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To: voletti
We are Americans too, insist US Muslims

So are Neo-Nazis.

But I repeat myself.

154 posted on 09/04/2006 5:59:38 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: Chena
Have we learned nothing about painting everyone with the same brush? Apparently, some have not. Disgraceful.

Um yeah, we've learned a lot. Korimatsu was a raging success, and it still is good law! Hey, that was a war we even won. "Denounce your home country, prove you're not an enemy infiltrator, enlist in the army even and we'll welcome you with open arms." During WWI the Sedition and Espionage Acts helped us get rid of the communist infiltrators and Russian emigres were not exactly handed the welcome wagon. The problem is we have forgotten the lessons of the past. People who are alien to our country- and whose homelands we are at war with!- have the opportunity to prove their fealty. That's all, nothing more.

The enemy truly thanks you "acceptance is an entitlement" types. Bang up job with the Muslim inclusion thing. World trade centers only bombed twice. Wake up!

155 posted on 09/04/2006 6:06:53 AM PDT by N. Beaujon (http://www.nbeaujon.com)
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To: voletti
" But how do I explain it to the sixth graders at the Islamic school when they come in after 9/11 and see 'Die, Muslim! Die!' scrawled on our playground?"

How? Simply tell them the truth: 'The extremists of our religion believe that all non-believers, who refuse to convert, must be killed. The vast majority of non-believers, do not wish to convert. Some of them feel that killing our extremists first would be the smart thing to do. But, since they can't easily identify our extremists, they have taken the "Kill them all, and let God sort it out!" approach. However, if we put our country first and identify our individual extremists to the FBI, we will receive praise for our actions, and the people who write this on our walls will lose motivation and legitimacy and they will stop. We will have gained self-respect, the respect of our fellow Americans, and pride in our country. We will then live happily ever after.

156 posted on 09/04/2006 6:22:05 AM PDT by LZ_Bayonet
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To: danamco
"For very good reasons, because you have not heard any of them stand up publicly and distance themselves from their militants Islamo-NAZIS! Have you?"

And how many Muslims have you heard say that beheading is wrong?
Can you imagine condoning a beheading.
What kind of evil is in the heart of a man that can behead another man. This is chilling.
157 posted on 09/04/2006 8:34:54 AM PDT by fabriclady
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To: Chena

During WWII, my italian grandparents were required to register as "enemy aliens" with the federal government and report all their movements. They had three sons serving in the US military at the time and they were proud to do it. Had they encountered any fellow Italians involved in espionage or terror activities, they might have reported them, but I suspect my grandfather would have simply killed them. He was a tough old bird and damned proud of his sons.


158 posted on 09/04/2006 10:23:18 AM PDT by Zippo44 (Liberal: another word for poltroon.)
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To: Zippo44
"but I suspect my grandfather would have simply killed them. He was a tough old bird and damned proud of his sons"

Wow, I am proud of your grandfather. I love it.
My grandfather was tough too. In fact, I told my son a story about him last night, how he taught me to fend off my tormentors while walking home from school. When the going got too rough for me he would pick me up "horseback". I was so proud to ride behind him.
159 posted on 09/04/2006 10:30:05 AM PDT by fabriclady
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To: TAdams8591

The real problem is that MUSLIMS are hiding behind the 'hijacked religion' fantasy!
All the 'good', different, Muslims on the planet don't seem to be having an effect on militant Islam. Why is that?
A difference that makes NO difference is useless.

The core point of the article was about TRUST. Giving the benefit of the doubt. Assuming.
Assuming, trusting, believing that all Muslims in this country are harmless, freedom-loving, just-like-everyone-else Americans.
And MY point is that that same sense of 'fairness' that has served America well in the past re. immigrants is SUICIDAL re. Muslims. They HAD that trust, until 9-11. Now they want it DESPITE 9-11, and they are never going to get it again.

I dare ANYONE to argue that our ' they're good until/unless they do something bad' way of thinking did not HELP the 9-11 murderers! A little suspicion BASED ON RELIGION might have saved a lot of lives. When your enemy uses your trust- you stop trusting. If you don't, you are suicidal, and share the guilt of what they do.
People Atta & co. lived and walked among didn't distrust them enough, based on their religion- and thousands died because of it. And the murderers-in -waiting are being trusted right now! They are being smiled at, and defended as nice, pleasant, harmless Muslims, every day, by people who care more about feeling 'good' about themselves, and 'fairminded', than they do about feeling safe- or saving future victims.
Distrust of Muslims in this country is what the article is bemoaning. Trust of Muslims in this country got us 9-11.
Come on- I dare ANYONE to argue that it didn't.


160 posted on 09/04/2006 11:28:45 AM PDT by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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