We are Americans too, insist US Muslims (Huh?)

WASHINGTON: Ihsan Saadeddin is proud to be an American. But he's tired of having to prove it just because he's a Muslim too.

The Palestinian grocery store owner in Phoenix has called the United States home for 25 years and feels as American as the next guy. He met his wife in Arizona, sent his three children to public school and has a weakness for McDonald's.

But Saadeddin says the September 11 attacks were a tragic watershed which turned US Muslims from ordinary citizens into objects of suspicion and discrimination overnight.

He believes it is why he was questioned at the airport for 45 minutes last month and asked repeatedly if he supports terrorism.

"Being born in another country does not make me less American than the secretary of homeland security," Saadeddin said.

Estimates of the number of Muslim Americans vary between three and seven million, including Arabs, Iranians, South Asians, African Americans and many other communities.

News of domestic wiretapping, monitoring of mosques, immigration crackdowns, public support for racial profiling and bans on some Muslim scholars visiting the United States has made many Muslim Americans feel like targets of racism.

Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi from Dearborn Heights, Michigan, speaks for many when he complains that officials including President George W. Bush use terms such as "Islamo-fascism" to describe the militant threat. They say such terms are inflammatory and liken their faith to dictatorships.

"This type of thing really hurts," said Elahi, an Iranian-born Shi'ite religious leader.

US officials deny they unfairly target Muslim Americans and say community leaders have better access to top US officials than ever before. Outreach efforts include townhall meetings with law enforcement officers and training courses for officials by community members.

"It's obvious that Muslim Americans face civil rights challenges now that they never faced before," said Daniel Sutherland, who heads the civil rights and civil liberties office at the Department of Homeland Security.

"As the government, we need to engage better with Muslim Americans. And we're trying hard within our department and you'll see it with state and local governments," he said.

Thank you for replying Chena,
When a Christian blew up an abortion clinic in Pensacola I was ashamed, when abortion doctors were murdered by Christians, I was ashamed that people took the religion to a level not supported by the majority.
I believe the majority of Christians and Christian leaders voiced opposition not support, Christians did not dress their children in bomb outfits and propose more bombings and murders.
I obviously have no problem being sick if it keeps me alert to danger. I believe that this is a dividing line for America and unfortunately innocents will be hurt on all sides. That's why I said muslim brothers don't care who they kill, in 9/11 or the streets of Bagdad.
However, because it is a religion we are fighting that does not separate church from state, I will not slacken on my position.
I believe that it is islam's desire to rule and that would mean the end of freedom in the entire world if America fails to stop this spread. The reality is that islam and freedom do not mix and American muslims have to decide with us or against us.

Show me ONE other religion whose CLERICS are preaching what Islamic clerics are! Any religion- or followers of a religion- that tolerates CLERICS preaching, condoning, and ordering the violence and death that Islam does is rightfully judged by the acts of those who officially speak for them. The Vatican wouldn't stand for a priest, anywhere, preaching violence and death in the name of the Catholic church. Nor would any congregation. And if they did, they- and anyone identifying with the Church- would be rightfully judged. Where is the schism in Islam that would distance the 'good' Muslims from these clerics who are defining Islam erronoeously? Where is the majority in outrage against these violent apostates?? And re. your comparison of trust of men to trust of Muslims? If you knew all men( like all Muslims) considered beating you up 'holy' and righteous-and were taught that- you'd be smart to distrust them. And all black men are not taught that rape is right. Do you not get that all Muslims have in common a book that ORDERS them to do violence to non-Muslims, and that they consider every word (including those) of that book 'holy'? Abusive boyfriends, and black almost-rapists do not have an institution encouraging them in their evil. Muslims do.

Not all Muslim clerics are preaching hate and death to all non-Muslims. The Vatican may not stand for a priest preaching violence and death, but they sure didn't stand up for the sexually molested children who were preyed on by some of their priests. Should I judge EVERY Catholic because of the evil, sick, deeds done to children by those priests? No, of course not.

And again, not ALL Muslims believe what YOU believe when it comes to the interpretation and beliefs in the Koran.

I'm signing off now. Have a nice Labor Day.

Seriously, what Islamic teachings are valued by American Muslims and others...those between a rock and a hard place?

Many believe that one of the core tenets of the religion demands that everyone must convert to the Islam religion and all infidels must be killed.

In effect, you view this opinion as propaganda. So the question is, "What are the facts?"

>"Thank God your inclinations are repressed by liberal civilization."

You can thank your gawd!

I might just want to live in peace and not hear about how many sausages you smoked or lightbulbs you poked, or the other blessings of "liberal civilization" that your kind tries to force on decent normal GOD fearing AMERICA loving citizens!

This imam needs to listen to the Mark Levin show, because Mark calls them by the exact RIGHT name: Islamo-NAZIS!!!

"Before that, it's just whining, and as things now stand, in fact it MAKES HIM WORTHY OF SUSPICION."

Agreed and was thinking exactly the same thing.

To prevent REAL habitual mistreatment of American muslims, the trick is to whine about it before it actually happens. That way people will become so fearful of accusations of discrimination, even justified complaints against American muslims will go non-reported, giving the enemy the upperhand, at least for a while.

Isn't it odd that there has been a plethora of these stories on the 5th anniversary of 9/11? Not stories about the savagery of the attacks or lives of our fighting forces lost freeing 50 million muslims. No, somebody looked at me funny.

I've come to believe that the legend of the moderate muslim is just that, a legend. They either outright support the jihadis or turn a blind eye.

SOME Americans are being hateful and vengeful against ALL Muslims, including those Americans who are living here peacefully. Have we learned nothing about painting everyone with the same brush? Apparently, some have not. Disgraceful.

For very good reasons, because you have not heard any of them stand up publicly and distance themselves from their militants Islamo-NAZIS! Have you?

You have NOT heard anything on these lines from the muzzie clerics, except for total silence or whatever they are saying behind close doors and in their mosques!!!Hugh???

stupid comments made by Christians...some Christians are idiots...

While it's off-topic, I'm curious to know a few comments by Christians which you deem "stupid"...and what provokes you to call some of them idiots.

I was baptized a Catholic when 3 weeks old BUT I take no offense to what you think. I'll only add that stupidity and idiocy have no religious, racial or national boundaries. So be careful that you don't single out Christians because then you lose your credibility. That's your choice. And mine is to remain a Christian. Shall we shake hands?

You are entirely missing the point.

Of course there are good people who are Muslims. It is to them that I address my remarks. The only way they can be good people is by being bad Muslims. The best of men are the worst of Muslims, while the worst of men are the best of Muslims. Why be a hypocrite?

Christianity on the other hand does not glorify its extremists, or its homicidal lunatics. It does not pay them stipends, or provide family support. Islam makes murder and mayhem, violence against women and children, and sexual perversion central to its belief system. Christianity does not.

Central to the Islamic belief system is a conviction that YOU are better off dead. Literally, dead.

That you many know nominal Muslims who don't seem to share that belief means one of two things: either you don't know that person well enough to have discerned their true beliefs, or that person has already slipped away from Islam. All I am saying is that those people should be honest about it and go all the way to freedom.

The REAL problem is we cannot tell peaceful muslims from the ones who wish us harm.

Since 9/11 the population of Muslims in my area has noticeably increased and I am very uncomfortable with it.

America used to wait until after the war was over before allowing those in whose country we are fighting to immigrate. NO longer. Not only don't we send home Muslims who aren't US citizens, we continue to allow them in as immigrants in even greater numbers in some cases.

Will someone please explain how that makes sense?

Chena, some Christian churches in the states bordering Mexico believe that charity tops U.S. law. Therefore, they believe illegal Mexican aliens should not be deported...that the U.S. has the moral obligation to allow them to live in our country.

Yet many, many U.S. Christians disagree.

Your position on Muslims living in America would seem to dovetail with your agreement of the churches which advocate charity towards Mexican illegals.

...the peaceful ones you are concerned for have to pay a price for killing innocent people.

Take a look at the other side of the coin. If American pilots hijacked four airplanes and flew them into Middle Eastern buildings, one can only imagine what would befall any American in that region at the time.

Face the ugly facts, dammit! We can't even RELATE to their neanderthal culture!

You are arguing a losing proposition. You seem to think that Muslims are Baptists with a different book.

I dare say I know a LOT more about Muslims, and Islam than you do, having lived among them in their lands for years and years and years of my adult life.

This IS a war with Islam, ALL of Islam, and the fact that there are slacker Muslims (apparently the only kind you know) does not make your naive extrapolation valid.

The Mulsim wolrd TEEMS with devoted haters. They were here before we were (at least our generation) and they were most certainly here before the Bush administration. They are not amenable you, or your love ministrations.

They are amenable to the bullet, the knife and the bomb.

This is not a war between Islam the United States. Islam is at war with what they consider unbelief. Hindus, Christians, Bahais, Jews, atheists, Parsees, and animists are all in their gunsights. They are not interested in a permanent ceaasefire. They are consumed with the desire to win WORLDWIDE- and that means YOU dead or in a burka.

And you so-called moderate Muslim friends won't be able to help. You see how paralized they already are. Just wait.

When they have to make the choice to conform or die, they won't hesitate. Fear is a powerful driver.

Nor were the Germans in WWII all evil people, or the Japanese, or the Mongols, or the North Koreans.....ad nauseum.

It doesn't take a plurality of extremists to make life horrible for others, and since none of us have godlike powers of discernment, that means everyone in that troublemaking group will come under suspicion-until the bad actors are removed, permanently.

For example, in the good old USA, why does someone like Robert Spencer have to keep his personal information private? Why do they have extremely tight security when he speaks publically? Because the members of the ROP will try to kill him if they can. The same for any prominant critic of Islam. Do YOU know which of our fine American members of the ROP will try to carry out the murderous deed? Nope, neither do I, and neither does Mr. Spencer. Therefore, he must view ALL muslims with suspicion if he wishes to survive.

Too blindly assume good will on the part of a group that has shown its extreme hostility to the western world is foolish and suicidal.

Incidentally, I don't see that you've defended all Muslims here, just the ones who haven't resorted to violence. The rest of this post is directed to anyone who wishes to respond.

"Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger tip." - Sura 8:12

Someone help me out here: Just where is the leverage for interpretation in a 'religious' quote like that? How do Muslims interpret a violent command in a peaceful way?

Still, if all Muslims interpreted the Koran literally, they each would have at least a few severed heads or fingers to their Islamic credit by now, which simply isn't the case. It is to their credit that, despite their teachings, the majority of them have not become killers.

Similarly, "an eye for an eye" may be interpreted as condoning violence - but we know it isn't carte blanche to seek revenge, interpretation being key.

So 'moderate' Muslims should explain how the Quran's calls for violence can be reconciled with a 'religion of peace'. It would help someone like me to understand, being no scholar of Islam myself. It may even force an examination of the value of the teachings.

Until then, I won't condemn non-violent Muslims, or the few brave ones who have spoken out. I do condemn the extremists, and the deafening silence of the Muslim majority. And unless Muslims provide some insights into interpretaton, I'll continue to doubt the validity of a religion that urges violence.

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