Chestlessness -

DavidWarrenOnline via Western Standard - Canada ^ | August 30, 2006 | David Warren

[goldstategop]

If you HAVE to die, then die with honor like a man. Or have men forgotten what it means to be a man? Women don't deserve men afraid to give up their lives for them.

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )

[nuconvert]

You need to read Steyn's article further to see the similarity in the Warren quote and Steyn...

"If you're a Muslim, the video is anything but meaningless. Not even the dumbest jihadist believes these infidels are suddenly true believers. Rather, it confirms the central truth Osama and the mullahs have been peddling -- that the West is weak, that there's nothing -- no core, no bedrock -- nothing it's not willing to trade."
" It doesn't matter how "understandable" Centanni and Wiig's actions are to us, what the target audience understands is quite different: that there is nothing we're willing to die for. And, to the Islamist mind, a society with nothing to die for is already dead."

[VOA]

"Too gruesome" ? LOL! This was a VERY BRAVE MAN.

Heck, they probably didn't want to air the video because it
likely showed a momentary bit of fear in the eyes of the Islamics.

Because they'd never seen a truly brave man up close before.

[SiGeek]

...might as well be among the walking dead.

I agree. Though it's easy to say from the comfort of my living room, I believe that living with the consequences of a poor choice in a life or death situation can be worse than death.

Reminds me of that scene from the movie Braveheart: "Aye, fight and you may die. Run and you'll live -- at least for a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they will never take... OUR FREEDOM!"

[dirtboy]

" It doesn't matter how "understandable" Centanni and Wiig's actions are to us, what the target audience understands is quite different: that there is nothing we're willing to die for. And, to the Islamist mind, a society with nothing to die for is already dead."

The Japanese probably felt the same way about Americans, that we were unwilling to commit to suicide charges and that we were willing to be captured alive.

Gee, we won that war, didn't we? Victory isn't about willingness to die. It is, to paraphrase Patton, having a willingness to make the other side die in very large quantities until they cannot and will not fight any longer. THAT is what has been missing from this war to date.

[roaddog727]

That would be a pretty sad world.

Utterly utopian and pointless.

[UnklGene]

Ezra Levant, editor of the Western Standard, made this same observation today in his paper.

[balls]

Ironically, our enemies agree with you. Personally, I don't want to play their game and believe "we live in a time where literally nothing (especially religious beliefs) is worth dying for"

[metesky]

Well, if you don't think it's important or not that a billion Muzzies think of us as cowards.

[goldstategop]

There are moments in life - when death itself IS the message. If you believe in eternal life before God, then death is one of the last things to be feared, for if you die a good death, you will be rewarded in the hereafter.

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )

[nuconvert]

:~ ) Now I know I'm alert & I've had my quota of caffeine for the day

[goldstategop]

I see the moderator removed my post. But I think so little of the poster I responded to that I will only state again that should we have the misfortune of falling into the enemy's hands, that though we may be powerless to save our own lives, it is entirely within our power to choose how we will die. For through our our human volition, we deprive our enemy of the power to strip us of everything that's dear to us and in the moment, we become more than the sum of ourselves. That in the end, is what it means to be human. The little worms of men can live their meaningless lives. I salute the courage of those who aspire to make a stand for all that has defined our civilization - faith in God and honor.

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )

[drjimmy]

Until such time as David Warren demonstrates that he himself has a chest--or even puts himself in a position where he might actually have to demonstrate that--I don't put much stock in what he has written.

[ml/nj]

I hold no animosity toward anyone who "converts" under coercion, because such conversions will be viewed as phony by the TV audience, despite the intentions of the captors.

Well, what did you think of their statements made after they were released?

I just hope this never scares a single journalist away from coming to Gaza to cover this story because the Palestinian people are a very beautiful, kind-hearted and caring people that the world need[s] to know more about.

Neither has repudiated this so far as I am aware, now that each is free to do so.

ML/NJ

[dirtboy]

Since when did any of us care what they think?

That's part of the problem. Gawd, look at the attitude in the US during WWII. Songs like "You're a sap, Mr. Jap." And a complete willingness to unleash total war on the other side.

Now, the greater war is not in Iraq, but at home between those with Vietnam goggles and those without such (we've discussed that one before). During the Cold War, the battle between the US and the Soviet Union was largely fought through proxies abroad. With this war, the Islamists largely fight their battles through their proxies in the far left and far right in this country. And that is just insane.

[Buck W.]

Exactly. Besides, their intended audience is much more aroused by the beheadings of those who adhere to this author's doctrine than by the "converts".

[dirtboy]

Well, if you don't think it's important or not that a billion Muzzies think of us as cowards.

Like I've said elsewhere, the Japanese thought Americans were cowards in WWII because our soldiers would not engage in suicide raids and were captured as POWs. However, we kill Islamists in great quantities in Iraq and Afghanistan because they are willing to die. Our greatest problem with this war is not how Islamists view us, but how our friggin' Democrats view Islamists. It is not about being unwilling to die at gunpoint over a forced conversion. It is about the likes of Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi being willing to sandbag our national security WITHOUT A FRIGGIN' GUN POINTED AT THEIR HEADS, BUT OF THEIR OWN DAMN FREE WILL.

[HairOfTheDog]

I disagree. Just imagine how much more peaceful the world would be if nobody was willing to die for religious beliefs.

Very well put! I agree with you. :~)

Though we might all cringe when we see kidnappers get what they want, I can't blame a man for wanting his life more than he wants to be thought-well-of-in-death by a bunch of armchair critics who have never had a confrontation with barbarians who would not hesitate to die for 'their' God. And no, I don't think that aspect makes them better people at all, merely more zealous.

If these two had been killed, we'd have never known why, and these critics who judge them harshly would have probably blamed them anyway just for being over there.

[navyblue]

" It doesn't matter how "understandable" Centanni and Wiig's actions are to us, what the target audience understands is quite different: that there is nothing we're willing to die for."

Normandy Bastogne, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and the list goes on! Muzzies had better learn a little of history in the last century. The day is coming. Most of us know that. And when push comes to shove, they will know how we can fight for our country and our principles.

They would also do well to remember General George S. Patton's famous remark :

Son, you're not here to die for your country. You're here to make the other dumb bastard die for his!

And those two journalists were not there to die for their country.