Martyrs wanted

BostonHerald ^ | Saturday, September 2, 2006 - Updated: 08:24 AM EST | Jules Crittenden

[Paperdoll]

>....Had it been my husband, I wouldn't have cared if he admitted to being the Lord Himself, if it meant he would stay alive.<

I'm afraid if my husband submitted to Satan's Islam to save his own neck I would entirely lose any respect for him.

[Nick Danger]

Have the newsman & cameraman RENOUNCED the islamic lies yet?

What, publicly? Are you nuts? The next people kidnapped by those bozos might need to 'convert' as well, to keep their heads attached to their necks. What do think will happen if this newsman and photographer get on TV and say, "Ha ha, it was all a trick. We didn't really convert"? I'll tell you what: the next ones kidnapped get their heads chopped off.

[motormouth]

If it was a "true" submission, I suppose I could agree.


MM

[whirleygirl]

I'm wondering why these two are getting so much more sympathy and empathy than Jill Carroll did. She didn't even convert, but as I recall, many Freepers wished her dead or worse.

[Beckwith]

It's time to make immigrants and visa-applicants sign a form disavowing the objectionable parts of Islam before entering the country or becoming citizens.

They got that covered. The following is from "Ask the Mufti."

Question:

To become a citizen of the U. S. one has to take an oath of allegiance. is it ok to take the oath?

The oath of allegiance is as follows: I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

They also ask on the citizenship form the following questions: If the law requires it, are you willing to bear arms on behalf of US? If the law requires it, are you willing to perform noncombatant service in the US Armed Forces? If the law requires it, are you willing to perform work of national importance under civilian direction?

My question is can we answer yes to these questions? is there anything wrong in doing that. what should the answer be: yes or no? could you please kindly give an urgent answer. jazakallah. Answer 8471 2003-04-25

The Mufti's answer:

As Muslims, we are duty bound to follow our lives strictly according to Shari’ah. Whatever Shari’ah allows us to do, we will abide by that and whatever Shari’ah has restricted us from, we will refrain from it. Hence, we are not allowed to obey anybody if it is resulting in the disobedience of the Creator, Allah. Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘There is no obedience for the creation by disobeying the Creator.’ (Mirqaat vol.7 pg.217; Imdadiyyah).

Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari’ah and Deen will always be his yardstick and that he will never sacrifice any of the teachings of Deen.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[Tax Government]

Thanks. Entering Muslims should be required to make a videotape in which they disavow sharia and objectionable parts of Islam fully and convincingly. That tape should be posted publicly on the State Department website.

If any visitor or immigrant wages jihad here -- driving over pedestrians, for example -- then visas for family members are comprehensively denied and revoked. I'm a master of stating the obvious, but sometimes the obvious is ignored.

[TimesDomain]

So we all surrender to terrorism ?

Never!

That is what promoted hitler, stalin, lenin, pol pot, and all the other murderous despots in history ... the basic cowardice of those who claim to be men - afraid to fight back. At least SOME were willing to give their lives to fight evil instead of cowering and licking its toes.

ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1687633/posts

[cusack7080]

Do you mean attention? I don't think that these guys are getting symapthy. I don't think she was asked to convert. And no, I don't think that any freepers wished her dead. Are cutting and pasting from DU?

[OldFriend]

Guess you would prefer him to lose his head so he could keep your respect.

I have the utmost sympathy for your husband, if you have one.

[WashingtonStateRepublican]

"I hate to think what would be going through my head if I got abducted, but I feel that if I converted under duress, I would be betraying my faith if not to God, then at least to the west."

-I say save your life and lie to the Muslims, God will know your faith is with him. Islam is a false faith based on the sick and twisted life of deranged pedophile.

[Nick Danger]

Living to fight another day is not surrendering. Getting your head sliced off while in captivity is only heroism if done while trying to escape; otherwise it's just stupid.

[sit-rep]

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say what should have been done. But no one can predict what the mind will do when you know you'll be be-headed if you do not cooperate in this situation.

I can't begin to judge these two men for what they did under the circumstance... If they have issues, seeing a priest about it would be my suggestion.

[Common Tator]

She didn't even convert

Like hell she didn't. She converted then lied and said she did not.

Conversion is the only way out alive!!!!!!

Just as I said on the Jill Carrol thread.. the only way out alive is to convert.

The problem is they are going to keep capturing journalists... and Jill Carrol makes it much harder to get them out alive.

[TimesDomain]

"Getting your head sliced off while in captivity is only heroism if done while trying to escape; otherwise it's just stupid."

I agree with that - I was referring to AFTER the fact. The NOW.

The reporter and cameraman are back home in safety - relatively speaking of course, since here we have lawyers and judges that protect the terrorists and harm the honest good Americans.

But we do outnumber the criminals, terrorists, and those who would harm us and our families. If we sit back and do nothing .. then America does not deserve to survive.

They now have the opportunity to be real men and stand up against those who tortured them. They are living now to fight back - if they don't then they have already surrendered and to islam, they are slaves - no more.

[The_Reader_David]

I shall answer your questions as best I can on the basis of my understanding of Orthodox Christian tradition:

First, a conversion *to* Christianity under duress is essentially infeasible: conversion requires a long period of study (the catechumenate), and judgement by a priest or bishop that one is prepared to accept the Faith in full understanding.

Conversion *from* Christianity, apostacy, is a grevious sin even under duress. St. Cyprian's "On the Lapsed" dealt with problems presented by repentent apostates, whose apostacy took place under threat of death by torture during the Roman pagan persecutions of the Church, who wished to return to the Church, and the treatment of 'the lapse' became the standard for the Sacrament of Penance (though in the East the sacrament was strongly influenced in its form by monastic spiritual direction).

And yes, the grace of martrydom for Christ is sufficient to deal with all sins--indeed martyrs who were not baptized are described as undergoing 'the baptism of blood.' But understand, that the sinful (possibly including you and me--we've not been put to the test) are likely to fear for their material lives, and not be able to accept the grace of martyrdom.