Posted on 08/29/2006 2:36:26 PM PDT by neverdem
fighting words
Plame Out
The ridiculous end to the scandal that distracted Washington.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2006, at 1:02 PM ET
In his July 12 column in the Washington Post, Robert Novak had already partly exposed this paranoid myth by stating plainly that nobody had leaked anything, or outed anyone, to him. On the contrary, it was he who approached sources within the administration and the CIA and not the other way around. But now we have the final word on who did disclose the name and occupation of Valerie Plame, and it turns out to be someone whose opposition to the Bush policy in Iraq has—like Robert Novak's—long been a byword in Washington.
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
"gimme da evidence that wilson was brokering yellow cake"
I listed many links that should allow anyone to see what was going on.
Joe Wilson was ENVOY to NIGER. (Got very close to President of Niger).
Once he established that relationship, and saw a potential for greater profit, he quit the gov't post and started his own company, J.C. Wilson, International.
His company specializes in brokering. They worked for the President of Niger handling large deals. The only thing that Niger exports is YELLOWCAKE ORE.
Right after Joe went to Niger during Clinton's admin, Saddam got a large shipment of YELLOWCAKE.
Right after Joe went to Niger during Bush's admin, Saddam got a large shipment of YELLOWCAKE. It was being concealed by the 'bring 2000tons in, take 2000 tons out' scheme.
Saddam got the YELLOWCAKE from LIBYA, and LIBYA got it from NIGER, and who was the broker for NIGER, again????? J.C. Wilson, INTL.
Joe contributes large amounts to DNC coffers, and is allowed to rake in massive profits for transactions done through a third party to launder them, and live like James Bond.
If the YELLOWCAKE that we KNOW Saddam got came from LIBYA (which it did) and LIBYA didn't produce it (which they didn't), where did it come from? and who handled the deal?
____________ Starting from the beginning.....
Joe Wilson was going to NIGER on private company business, and had close connections with the NIGER government via his service as ENVOY to NIGER, and was suggested to spy for the CIA by his wife.
WHAT PRIVATE COMPANY BUSINESS WAS THIS?
That question I have answered and the MSM has ignored.
The answer proves my whole case.
Why do you think you have never seen, in the MSM, the question I just asked???????
Love your suggested title. It says it all.
He also narrated that great crime show "The Untouchables." His narrative gave the show a documentary/newscast kind of feel.
Hitchens has also traveled extensively in Iraq. He definately states the place is better off without the Baathist thugocracy, even considering the violence.
Why didn't Fitzgerald believe Armitage?
I'll have to study the background a little more. Haven't had time in the last couple of days. Thanks for the ping.
Nobody believes Armitage, Powell, or anyone schooled with Kissinger; I include Webb, but he is actually too brain dead to count.
You really thought that the Bush administration (I assume you mean the President and/or VP or at least with their knowlege) has the desire to spend valuable time playing these sorts of low political games when they are trying to wage war on an enemy hell-bent on destroying us?? All the while being attacked here at home by the Party of the Criminally Insane and their media shills?
I never once thought that was the case and fully expected it to turn out as it has. Except for actually naming Armitage (and there was certainly speculation of him being the leaker) Freepers and the conservative blogosphere debunked Wilson's lies and the PlameNameGame literally just a couple of weeks after the story broke.
From what I see, there is a dramatic shortage of internal oversight and punitive measures for unethical conduct within the legal and judiciary professions.
Of course. They would be derelict in their duties if they didn't. They were trying to get and keep public support for their policies. Wilson's attack had to be answered. Since low political games are the only political games in town they have to play them.
Freepers and the conservative blogosphere debunked Wilson's lies and the PlameNameGame literally just a couple of weeks after the story broke.
I don't mistake conservative blogs for the word of God anymore than I do liberal blogs. I try to keep my own counsel, make my own decisions. In this case I was wrong...or so it seems.
Dozens of foul and baseless attacks have gone unanswered by this administration. The Plame farce was answered by calling for an investigation and special prosecutor, the latter being a mistake.
Since low political games are the only political games in town they have to play them.
Name a low political game the administration has engaged in. There are none that I can think of. This President will turn away and let vicious criticism go unanswered because he feels doing so is beneath and cheapens the office of POTUS. he has done so time and time again. Unlike his predecessor who calls out his lawyer goons and goes publically ballistic when a documentary-drama shines a little light onto the feckless negligence of his administration and threats against this nation.
I don't mistake conservative blogs for the word of God anymore than I do liberal blogs. I try to keep my own counsel, make my own decisions. In this case I was wrong...or so it seems.
Nobody equated blogs with God. My point is that very early on, FReeper research shot enough holes into Wilson's story as to make it extremely questionable. That has been born out, just like Dan Blather. I'd put FReeper research up against any current newsroom of today.
bttt
Go to Daily Kos, DU, TPM Cafe and you'll find the Administration accused of an endless string of low political manoevers. Are they all lies or exagerations? I don't know...but I very much doubt it.
Dozens of foul and baseless attacks have gone unanswered by this administration.
The Administration most certainly did not ignore Wilson. The report which Armitage read had been commissioned by Libby or Cheney. They may not have had anything to do with outing Plame but they certainly made every effort to discredit him.
I'd put FReeper research up against any current newsroom of today.
Freeper research is very good...but there are many knee-jerkers and plenty of sloppy reasoning here as elsewhere.
I still don't understand why they aren't being brought up on charges for trying to discredit and slander the administration during a time of war, while supposedly serving the government as trusted insiders! Traitors.
Since the hatred for GW Bush runs so deep and rabid at these moonbat sites, I'm sure you are correct about the number of accusations. But knowing their tinfoil hat, misguided, poorly informed "logic" I'll part company with you and assert that practically everything that the President is accused over at those cesspool sites is a lie or exaggeration. A wolf-pack mentality prevails.
The report which Armitage read had been commissioned by Libby or Cheney. They may not have had anything to do with outing Plame but they certainly made every effort to discredit him.
Nonsense. If you are referring to the chock-full of lies report that Wilson wrote after his little mint tea-drinking Niger trip, THAT WIFEY PROBABLY SENT HIM ON, the VP has already stated he did not order the report, didn't sent Wilson to Niger and didn't even recall if he knew Wilson. Since we know that Wilson as already been exposed as the liar he is, and the VP hasn't had any scandals or investigations about his integrity in 6 years who do you think wise and astute people should put their faith in? Seems obvious to me.
If you have credible sources that claim Libby ordered the report, please provide them.
Freeper research is very good...but there are many knee-jerkers and plenty of sloppy reasoning here as elsewhere.
Freeper research is so good because there are those of us that will question methods and outcomes. Unlike the media. And yes, there can be knee-jerking sloppies, but on balance there are those same well-reasoned and thoughtful freepers as mentioned above and they are the ones that help bring out facts and deduce (or at least make educated guesses) at what has occured.
DU and Kos just KNEW that Rove, Libby and maybe even Cheney were going down for this. As it stands nobody in the administration went down for anything related to Plame being "outed" (because she wasn't) and Fitz's trumped up malicious charges should be dropped against Libby.
* Scooter Libby asks Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman for information about the unnamed ambassador's trip. Grossman does not know about it, goes back and finds out. Grossman gives Libby interim oral reports in late May and early June, and advises Libby that Wilson is the unnamed ambassador. Grossman directs the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research to prepare a report concerning the ambassador and his trip. (Libby indictment, p. 4; Hearing transcript, pdf p. 6)
from Plame Leak timeline
Armitage got his info from Grossman's report.
By the way, this story is far from over. David Corn yesterday claimed the real leakers were Rove and Libby. Wilson and Plame make the same claim, despite adding Armitage's name to their lawsuit.
The principal low political game the Administration is accused of playing is taking us to war by manipulating the supporting evidence, a grave charge indeed. It's still very much alive.
I won't be able to do much more this morning. Sorry. Maybe I can get back to this in the afternoon.
Armitage worked at state and I believe he's the gossiper who spoke with Novak. He's admitted so publically. I don't believe either one of those Chatty Cathies thought anything about either the conversation or the possibility of trouble with her status being reported in Novak's column because she of course, wasn't covert and had no identity to protect. Wilson and the democrats, IMO, saw a way to take a cheap shot at the administration and stir up stink and they took it. It's what they do best.
By the way, this story is far from over. David Corn yesterday claimed the real leakers were Rove and Libby. Wilson and Plame make the same claim, despite adding Armitage's name to their lawsuit
Well now there's credibility for you, Corn, Wilson and Plame, LOLOLOL!! Larry you simply have to start using you noggin. The moonbats will continue their moonbattering because for many reasons. Attention, notariety, ego-stroking to name just a few. Which of course means they never let the truth get in the way of a good story, LOL! Come on larry, wise up. Do you really think Fitz, after interrogating Rove multiple times for hours on end wouldn't have indicted him if he'd had one molecule's worth of reason to do so? Commme onnnnn...!
The principal low political game the Administration is accused of playing is taking us to war by manipulating the supporting evidence, a grave charge indeed. It's still very much alive.
Larry, you really disappoint me here. Bush saw the same intel that Clinton saw and that numerous RATS commented on about the dangers of Saddam and WMD during Clinton's reign of terror. If you need a link to their quotes I can get one. And not just American intel but British, Israeli, French, German, Australian, probably Russian if truth be told, and even the odious UN. The whole damn world thought Saddam had the stuff and I for one don't think the world was wrong. I think they were hidden, most likely during our kibuki dance with the UN in the run up to OIF which waasted precious time and advantage.
Bush twisted nothing. He acted on what was being interpreted by multiples sources and what had been seen over numerous years. That's what any responsible president would do.
Which leave out Clinton of course.
It wasn't wikipedia but rather dkosopedia. But that's the umbrella. The sources for each entry in the time line are listed separately. Some are primary, like Libby's testimony. Others are secondary and of very varied quality. To do a credible research job you'd have to examine each one thoroughly - hopefully getting to the primary sources in every case. I don't have the time...or the interest.
But assuming for the moment that the account is fairly accurate, doesn't it seem reasonable to you that when a foreign trip and subsequent report made by a US ambassador, and unauthorized by the WH, is presented with misinformation (and I'm being charitable here) that the WH would want to know who went and who sent him?
I said in an earlier post that the Administration was obligated to challange Wilson. You denied they did. I've showed that you were wrong.
I don't believe either one of those Chatty Cathies thought anything about either the conversation or the possibility of trouble with her status being reported in Novak's column because she of course, wasn't covert and had no identity to protect
Completely wrong in every way.
Larry you simply have to start using you noggin.
I am to the best of my ability. :) To me the story is very much unfinished. I don't know who to believe...or how to string together the facts I do have.
the whole damn world thought Saddam had the stuff and I for one don't think the world was wrong
Good point. But not entirely convincing to me. Why not? Because, prior to the war, gcochran, posting to FR, told me that he didn't and gcochran knew what he was talking about.
Please don't engage in intellectual dishonesty. You said Of course. They would be derelict in their duties if they didn't. They were trying to get and keep public support for their policies. Wilson's attack had to be answered. Since low political games are the only political games in town they have to play them.
I responded and challenged your allegation that low political games were used and challenged further that it was done only to keep public support for their policies. Neither was the case. As I stated before, an investigation was the administrations response. I maintained they responded but responded APPROPRIATELY AND WITHOUT LOW CLASS TACTICS.
Completely wrong in every way.
Plame was no more a covert agent at that time than I am and her identity was well known through her husband Joe Wilson. Their pictures were splashed on Vanity Fair and she was listed in Who's Who or some other identity encyclopedia waay before he went to Niger. Which is why it never occured to Novak that including her in his article would lead to any flap whatsoever.
To me the story is very much unfinished. I don't know who to believe...or how to string together the facts I do have.
Perhaps because the "facts" as laid out by Wilson, the RATS and the media simply add up to a warm bucket of spit?
I don't believe I've ever read gcochran on FR, name not ringing a bell, so I can't speak to their knowlege/expertise or lack of it. Does gcochran still post here?
Let's just say there was a misunderstanding.
I don't believe I've ever read gcochran on FR, name not ringing a bell, so I can't speak to their knowlege/expertise or lack of it. Does gcochran still post here?
gcochran was from a military family whose ancestors had fought in every American war from the Revolution to the present. He had a PH.D. in physics (from Stanford?) and strong connections to the military, the intelligence community, and our weapons designers.
He opposed the Iraq war.
I contended that it was the right move because Muslim fanatics posed a grave danger to our way of life whether or not the Administration's justifications for itwere honest or Machiavellian (which I believed to be the case). He believed that it was a misguided waste of lives, treasure, and the American good name, that the Muslim world consisted of primitive barbarians best contained by sanctions and inspections, that our energies should be focused on China whose GNP grow more every week than the entire Muslim world's did in a year (a powerful image which has remained with me), that we would pay a dreadful price when the world discovered that Saddam had no WMD, that George Bush was an idiot, and the neocons raving lunatics. He was banned for his unwillingness to contain his contempt for their policies...but clearly had had it with the knee-jerk mindlessness which he felt characterized far too many posters on this site.
I think his posts still reside in the archives. Perhaps a search will reveal them.
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