Posted on 08/27/2006 12:41:00 AM PDT by Crazieman
Per Fox News
I guess time will tell. There was an interesting post (yeah, I know, it was from DEBKA, but I've found them to be right more often than not) about the participation of Palestinians other than the initial group of kidnappers in this, and how they decided that "conversion" to Islam would serve their purposes just fine. That along with some ransom money paid through the UK, of course.
I don't know. I'm sure their dream now is having Pres. Bush captive in the White House and forcing him to say he has "converted" to Islam. We believe in free will so we don't regard a forced "conversion" as a conversion. They believe that everybody is born Muslim and is actually "reverting" when they make their Islamic profession, so we are dealing with two different realities. The only thing that this makes clear, IMHO, is that it is a religious conflict - that is, the attempt by a cult to take over the world and impose their cultic beliefs - and we should take it seriously on that level.
Not that it matters but it seems Olaf's father is a reverend and must have had some faith from that. I don't think it is fair to judge these men who were forced at gunpoint to say these words. I believe God will know what was in their heart. Otherwise it would have been suicide.
It is a reporters job to tell the story from both sides.
I am so glad they are physically unharmed and free, hoerver it does appear from their first video that they were in grave fear for their lives.
Let's just be happy for them and their families OK?
This is hindsight, but I think this is shaping up to have been a propaganda stunt from the beginning. Hamas set it up.
But my other gripe is the white guilt from Steve&Olaf, as well as the media in general. They have all the sympathy for the plight of Palestine and these terrorists. I bet they had very little sympathy for the plight of Israel.
And I saw a bit of CNN (always a mistake), and they were discussing the lack of media attention to this story. One woman said that the 'blogger conspiracy theory' is that since FOX is considered a conservative network (they are most definitely not, IMO), it got little attention. She said that theory doesn't hold water. She then went on to say that Jill Carroll got attention because her story demonstrated the plight of the reporter in Iraq and this story didn't have that same angle. Recall how the media got criticized for staying in their hotel rooms in Iraq and not covering the story in the face of any danger.
Okay, I can see that point about Carroll. But she doesn't really explain the discrepancy with the Fox journalists. I think because it is FOX, the Drive-By Media ignored it due to their own liberal bias and hatred for FOX. I think we're going to see this issue come up on Monday with Rush, et. al.
"Rarely in my lifetime have I heard ALL sides of the story from the media"
I think that was Centanni's POINT.
Exactly WHAT TF is your major malfunction, [expletive deleted]?
You've run out of vacant "arguments" to counter me with, so you now engage in an endless stream of serial personal attacks?
Good grief, you're a real piece of work. A real keyboard kommando. BIG brave macho man, typing cheap shots at the gimp, right? Wow, such bravado.
Get back with me when you grow up. Or sober-up. Or both.
Better yet, DON'T get back with me. Leave me TF alone. If you have an insatiable need to nip at ankles, go find some OTHER ankles to bite, OK? I've about had it with your snotty routine.
When you began ridiculing me for my physical disability, you crossed the line, pal. When you CONTINUED your personal attacks, staccato fashion, one after another -- a series of insulting one-liners, mocking my physical health situation... You are no longer an amusing oddity. You are now an offensive, abusive, nasty piece of work.
Consider the source.
...just thinking the same thing.
Such rantings will get you relegated to the FR Fight Club.
And when the hallway monitors run out of arguments, they will begin a slew of personal attacks. If you are a gimp, like me, you'll even get to be mocked and taunted over your physical disability.
Gotta luv the "new" FR...
No, I've talked with a rabbi who was recently in the northern region of Israel and has served in the IDF in Lebanon.
So you can go blow it out the other end, old boy.
I told you privately (FReemail) hours ago that I have at least your similar pain and have had chronic pain in my lower back and right knee for at least four decades. So shut that pie-hole of yours.
Try crying to someone else. You seem like one who whines about his own pain and no one else's.
What a life you have, eh?
Christian Martyrs: A VERY long legacy.
Christian Martyrs: A VERY long legacy.
Although it is a very hard and controversial point, throughout history there have been ten of thousands of Christians who when “at threat of death” would gladly give their lives rather than renounce their faith is Jesus Christ.
I am not judging the Fox news people… only God will. But the facts of history are replete with contrary behavior.
Here are just a very few….
Agapius:
He was brought to the arena with a murderer to be cast to wild animals. The emperor gave clemency to the murderer. When the Christian refused to accept liberty by renouncing his faith, he rushed against a bear let loose upon him. After being mauled by the bear, he was taken to prison. Surviving for one day, stones were bound to his feet, and he was thrown into the sea. (357)
Alpheus:
He was scourged and scraped with iron hooks and severe bonds. He received different tortures on the rack, having his feet stretched a night and a day to the fourth hole in the stocks. At length, he was beheaded. (350)
Apollonia:
They seized this elderly woman, beat her jaws, and broke out all her teeth. They built a fire and threatened to burn her alive unless she would repeat their impious expressions. She appeared to shrink a little, but when allowed to go, she suddenly sprang into the fire and was consumed. (258)
Apollonius:
He was renowned for his learning and wisdom. After he gave an eloquent defence of the faith before the judge, he was decapitated according to the decree of the senate. (205)
Apphianus:
When this youth tried to prevent Urbanus from sacrificing to a god, he was seized and torn by the soldiers. He received innumerable stripes on his whole body and was cast into prison. There he was stretched with both feet a night and a day on the rack. When he was brought before the judge and refused to make a sacrifice, his sides were furrowed and scraped to the bone while he was being beaten on the face and neck. When he still did not yield, they covered his feet with linen steeped in oil and set fire to the cloth. The fire penetrated to the bones, but the youth did not die or yield. Defeated, the tormentors returned him to prison. After three days, he was taken again to the judge. This time, as he remained faithful to his belief, he was thrown into the sea and drowned. (355)
Blandina:
She was tortured by tormentors who took turns from morning till night until they were overcome. She continued to live despite her whole body being torn asunder and pierced. Later, she was bound and suspended on a stake, being exposed as food for wild animals. When none of the animals would touch her, she was taken down from the stake and returned to prison for another time. Then, after scourging, exposure to animals, and roasting, she was thrown into a net and cast before a bull. After much tossing from the animal, she died. (172-179)
Cronion:
[See the account of Julian. These two received their like torture together.] (259)
Ennathas: She was dragged by force and brought before the judge. After being scourged and enduring dreadful abuses, she was stripped of her clothes above the loins. As she was led about the city, she was beaten with thongs of hide. She remained cheerful through this; and, when she was taken back before the judge, she was condemned to the flames. (365, 366)
Julian: He was an old man who was afflicted with gout. Having confessed the Lord in front of his accusers, he was carried on a camel throughout the city. In this elevation, he was scourged and finally consumed in an immense fire, surrounded by the thronging crowds of spectators. (259)
Metra:
An aged man, he was called upon to utter impious statements. When he did not obey, his tormentors beat his body with clubs, and pricked his face and eyes. After that, they led him to the suburbs, where they stoned him. (257)
Origen:
He endured many torments to the body because of his faith. He was under an iron collar, spent time in the deepest recesses of the prison, for many days was extended and stretched to four holes on the rack, was threatened by fire, and had other tortures. The judge tried hard to protract his life in order to prolong his sufferings. (255)
Polycarp:
He was a teacher from Asia who taught multitudes not to sacrifice to the gods nor worship them. Through a vision he had, he said that he must be burned alive. After he was bound to the stake, he prayed and awaited the fire. The flames gave the appearance of an oven around him. He was in the midst, not like burning flesh, but like gold and silver purified in the flames. A fragrant odour, like the fumes of incense, or other precious aromatic drugs, was perceived. When the persecutors saw that his body could not be consumed by fire, they commanded the executor to plunge his sword into him. When this was done, such a quantity of blood gushed forth that the fire was extinguished. His body was later burned according to the custom of the Gentiles, and his bones were buried. (143)
Pothinus:
He had performed the ministrations of the episcopate of Lyons. Although past ninety years of age, very infirm of body, he was taken to the tribunal where he stood firm in his faith. He was unmercifully dragged away and endured many stripes, while those nearby abused him with their hands and feet. Then, after two days in prison, he died. (174)
Procopius: Before he was tried by imprisonment, he was taken before the tribunal of the governor. When commanded to sacrifice to the gods, he declared that he knew only one to whom it was proper to sacrifice. When ordered to make libations [the ritual of pouring out wine or oil in honor of a god] to the four emperors, he stated a sentence which did not please his accusers. Immediately, he was beheaded. (349)
Quinta:
They took her to the temple of an idol and tried to force her to worship. When she turned away in disgust, they tied her by the feet and dragged her through the city, dashing her against the millstones and scourging her at the same time. When they completed the dragging where they started, they stoned her. (257)
Sanctus:
He suffered many torments devised by men. When these men could do no more, they fastened hot plates of brass to the most tender parts of his body. He withstood all the suffering, but his body was one continued wound, mangled and shrivelled, that had entirely lost the form of man to the external eye. Again, he passed through the tortures. These included the strokes of the scourge, the draggings and lacerations from the beasts, other tortures demanded by the audience, and the iron chair upon which his body was roasted. Other tortures followed until he died. (172-176)
Serapion:
He was seized in his own house. After torturing him with the severest cruelties and breaking all his limbs, they threw him headlong from an upper storey of the house. (258)
Simeon:
He was the son of Cleophas, a descendant of David, and the second bishop of Jerusalem. When he was one hundred and twenty years old, a search was made for any descendants of David. Simeon was one who was taken into custody. After he had been tormented for several days, he was crucified. (118)
Theodosia:
She was not yet eighteen years old, yet was distinguished for her faith and virtue. As she approached some prisoners before the judgment seat to salute them, she was seized by the soldiers and led away to the commander. She was tortured cruelly, having her sides and breasts furrowed with instruments even to the bones. She kept a cheerful and joyful countenance throughout. Then she was ordered to be cast into the sea. (359)
Timotheus:
He endured a multitude of tortures. Then he was condemned to be consumed by a slow and gentle fire. Throughout it all, he exhibited an undeniable proof of his sincere devotedness to God. (352)
Ulpian:
He was a young man who suffered dreadful torments and the most severe scourgings. After all of these, he was sewn in a raw bull's hide, together with a dog and a poisonous asp, and thrown into the sea. (357)
Zaccheus:
[See the account of Alpheus. These two received their like torture together.] (350)
I'm to the point that it's not even worth it to debate them anymore.
Other than the fact that they are an embarassment to FR, what use are they?
Would have hung around longer, but I had to leave to make breakfast.
Just so you know, it's a bit surreal here "downthread" too.
The best outcome would have been live journalists and dead kidnappers. We got the most important half, but it's still weird to see people try to spin debasement as victory.
You give me the creeps.
No doubt we're all happy that they are free. But that doesn't mean we have to ignore the other truth that they are spewing the usual white guilt liberal dogma about the 'plight' of Palestine, getting the real story, etc... Ego-rant is spot on! I listened to it and I hurled a few back at my TV. They saw the face of the enemy and it didn't phase them out of their kooky liberal views of moral relativism. There is EVIL in the world and they don't get it. It is a religious war, and they don't want to face it.
Thanks for the Drudge link. It looks like the hint that Wiggs gave in his earlier taped message, for the US to pressure the local authorities for their release, was a real good piece of information.
Are they still in Gaza??
David Lee Miller reported that they had been transported to Israel.
Thank God they are outta there.
Don't let 'em provoke you. So far today I've been verbally assaulted like never before, and I'm almost 60 years old. I have, in this one thread, been repeatedly mocked for my physical disability, told to get back to the bus station, etc.
The "hallway monitor" crew is really feeling its oats today. Must be really sad, to have such a no-life situation that one is driven to loiter on website forums to shove their imaginary weight, trying to boss strangers around, intimidating anyone who dare offend them (and taking offense at *anything* that does not agree with their own ideas 100%!)
Oh, well. It's good practice for dealing with any muslim captive scenarios, I guess, LOL! Say the wrong thing and they go medieval on you, because you *offended* them!
Riddle:
How can you tell the difference between a radical muslim fundamentalist, and an FR "hallway monitor"?
The radical muslim extremist will always provide you an "out", LOL!
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