Health Care Costs Money, So Buy It! (Dr. Rush Limbaugh Slams "The Give It To Me" Mentality Alert)

RUSH: Larry in Bourbonnais, Illinois, training location for the Chicago Bears. It's nice to have you on the program, sir. Welcome.

CALLER: Hi, Rush, how you doing? Long-time listener, long time Republican, ever since Reagan was elected.

CALLER: If Hillary or any other Democrat runs for president this next time around and offers some sort of national health care, I'm voting for them.

CALLER: Serious as a heart attack. You know, I'm tired -- I got the kids here at home -- well, they're grown up now, just young starting out on their own, want to start a family, they did everything by the book, they go into school, went to trade schools, and trying to find a decent job that offers any kind of health benefits is just damn near impossible.

RUSH: No, it's not. Now, come on. Finding a job that offers health benefits is impossible?

CALLER: Well, they offer some sort of health benefits but the portion that you have to pay, well, I got one son, the portion he has to pay would take about probably a third of his monthly income goes just to he health care.

RUSH: All right. Okay. You really stand by the assertion you've been a Republican since Reagan? Because what you're saying here doesn't jibe with what you should have learned and agreed with in those days.

CALLER: Oh, yeah, man, long time, just here in the last few years, I've seen how these kids are struggling now, and competition out there is strong, and you look at it, and you see, well, you know, people that are retired, they got health care, and people that don't want to work, they got Medicaid. They have Medicare for somebody that's retired, but somebody that's just starting out in life, they want to start a family, they got nothing.

RUSH: Not yet. Well, then they don't need it. It is elective. This is one way to look at it. Of the 45 million reputedly uninsured in this country, a large number of them are uninsured by choice. Kids just starting out --

RUSH: Wait. Kids just starting out are just starting out. "Just starting out means something;" retired means something. There are other concerns other than health care when you are young. But let me get to the nut of what you're saying here, because I'm trying to think of a great question to ask you. You would vote for a Democrat if the Democrat promises something close to universal health coverage.

RUSH: You ought to know that that doesn't work. You ought to know that everywhere it's been tried around the world -- Canada, Great Britain, it doesn't work, and they still end up with two systems where people who can afford it pay for it themselves, they get the best coverage. Everybody else waits in line for an appendectomy. Now, if the government ought to by your health care, how come the government shouldn't buy your kids a house?

RUSH: That's my point. Why should he have bought it? Why don't you hold out for the government to buy the house?

RUSH: Well, now, wait, why is it his way for the government to buy his health care?

CALLER: If he was an illegal he would just go down to the hospital and get taken care of and let the taxpayer cover it. But he's not that way, either, he's not going to go down there. He's going to pay his bills when he has bills.

RUSH: No, he's not. He's not going to pay his health care bills. For some reason --

RUSH: -- wait a minute. For some reason his neighbors and others in the community ought to pay his health care bills. Who do you think pays for health care for all these people?

CALLER: But I'm paying for coverage for the people that are retired. I'm paying for coverage for people that have no job. I'm paying for coverage of people that aren't even citizens of the United States --

RUSH: No, no! You're caving in. You're giving up. You're saying sayonara. I can't believe you're saying this. That's not the way to fix this. That's not the way to deal with this, is to make it worse.

CALLER: Well, why should I give up? Our president wants to let 12 million of them stay, 12 million illegals stay in this country, they just go to the hospital and get their health care.

RUSH: Yeah, and it's got people roiled, and there are going to be people paying for that dearly at the next election. You wait.

RUSH: I guarantee you, you start voting for Democrats you're not going to change any of this. You start voting for Democrats, you're going to be paying more than you are now for everybody to be on health care, and it's going to be so restrictive it's not going to be worth it.

CALLER: At least somebody from my family and my side will benefit from it, you know?

RUSH: I can't believe you. You gotta be putting me on, Larry. You can't possibly be... You're a professional provocateur. You cannot be this shortsighted. You're coming across as two things, someone who has totally given up, you can't beat the system and now you want to game it yourself.

CALLER: Well, I've just about given up, Rush. You know who our senators are here in Illinois?

RUSH: Well, if you vote for a Democrat for president, you're waving the white flag.

CALLER: We've got one person here in our state, one representative in our district, Jerry Weller, Republican, is the only one that's got a clue as to what's really going on.

RUSH: No, no. They all know what's going on. What you're up against there are people who are trying to make you give up. They are liberal Democrats. They want you to give up out of frustration. They want you to turn over your life and your kids' lives to them so that you are totally and utterly powerless, so you never have the chance to provide for your own health care. Just like you buy your own car, your own hotel rooms, your own gasoline. Why shouldn't the government buy your gasoline? Where does this kind of stuff stop?

RUSH: Let me see if I can tackle this, because I'm getting lots of e-mails. "That caller was right, there are fewer and fewer companies offering health benefits, and it's getting tougher and tougher for young people to go out there and get health coverage." It's at time like these, ladies and gentlemen, that my soul is tried. Into my 19th year, to still have such ignorance in this audience. I understand it may not be total ignorance. A lot of it is emotion. So what I'm about to say will be considered cold-hearted, mean-spirited, and cruel. First to those of you saying, "He's right, Rush! If the government's buying all these illegal homes and giving them health care, why not us?" You people know better than that.

The idea to fix the problem is to get rid of the government paying health care for illegals and giving them housing and all of that, not for everybody else to get on that gravy train! I am shocked. I am stunned that some of you people want to actually do that. You are giving up. I understand the frustration out there, but get with the program. This stuff never ends. It's an ongoing battle. It's called defeating liberalism and liberals and their way of thinking. They want as many people dependent on them -- i.e., government -- as possible, and I cringe when I hear so many of you people begging to get on the same dole simply because you're bitter that others have it and you don't. I am shocked. That's not what people in this audience are made of, and I will not tolerate it.

The fix for this is to fix the illegal alien problem and to stop all this liberalism and the growth of government. Number two. For those of you who say that fewer and fewer employers are offering health benefits, what is the purpose of a job? To get health coverage, or to get a job to be productive and advance in life so that you can buy whatever you need -- not want, need -- on your own? Since when is it American to transfer your needs to somebody else? Is that the purpose of a company, an organization, a small business sits there for the express purpose of providing your needs? It's bad enough when you think they ought to buy your VCR, but now they ought to buy your needs? I am sick. I am sad. I am disappointed.

What a way to send me off on my golf trip vacation, thinking of myself as an utter failure with some of you people, in 18-plus years. If fewer and fewer companies are offering health benefits, wake up and ask yourself why. Don't conclude it's because they're cruel and mean and greedy and selfish and want you to get sick and suffer. If they hire you, they want you to be productive. They don't want you going to the doctor every damn day. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, if you're taking a look at what's happening at General Motors and Ford, companies have been providing endless benefits for decades, not the only for people who are currently employed but for those who are retired. Do you think this golden goose can't be killed?

The pension programs at General Motors are in trouble because they don't have the money. And so guess what? Good old Uncle Sam is going to take over. So now people are going to be dependent on the government for their pensions! This idea that a company exists to give you health care, where did this come from? I know it's expensive, and I know catastrophic health care is devastating. I'm fully aware of it. I have been there. But the idea that somebody else should pay for that aspect of your life has got to stop, otherwise your kids are going to grow up thinking that somebody else ought to buy their car and that somebody else ought to pay or partially pay for their house, 'cause those things are expensive, too.

Then someday somebody is going to assume that somebody ought to pay for their vacation. Where does this stuff stop? When people are young and just starting out, my thinking is that they need to have a little sense of perspective and proportion, demanding when they're 21, 25, first and foremost that they get health care coverage. I understand people want security. They want to be covered in case something catastrophic happens. The odds of that, to people who are young and youthful are very low compared to people who are aged and older. If it is so important -- pardon me for shouting; I am revved up. If it is so important, how about buying one car, or not buying three plasmas, and going out and buying your own health care plan, finding a group to join, if it's that important?

I understand you're all Americans, and you expect, as Americans, that what is necessary, particularly for health, should be available just because we're Americans. But it costs. It has, as does everything, a price. We have, as human beings, priorities. Now, if you are really at the top of your list, concerned about health care, and you're working for someplace that doesn't provide it, then I would think the responsible thing to do would be to go out and buy it for yourself and do without something else. But I realize those two words infuriate many of you, "do without." It is a concept that many young people don't understand anymore.

Yeah, well, when I was 21, 22, we all did without, and a lot of people are still doing without, but they still strive. But this notion that because the illegals get health care free -- and, by the way, if you -- if you go to places where this is happening, 11 emergency rooms in southern California have closed and shut down because they weren't being paid. They had by law to cover, but they couldn't keep operating. So we're short 11 emergency rooms, and this is from the Los Angeles Times about a year ago. We're short 11 emergency rooms. What you look and see as the grass being greener is not, almost in all cases, is not what it appears to be. The grass is seldom greener because everything is relative. I understand as well as anybody the frustration over illegal aliens and the fact that they get -- well, I don't know about housing.

I don't know where that comes from, but the medical care and so forth and so on, and I understand for young people starting out that you can't afford the house that you grew up in. "It's so unfair. It just isn't right." This is what I mean, folks, when I have said, and when I've been saying over the course of many recent months here, that we have a society that's so affluent -- and we really, really do -- that the expectations that people have are through the roof, and that's fabulous, and that's great. But you have to understand at the same time that the expectations are just that. If you expect X, it's also expected of you that you are going to get it, and when I hear you expecting it to be given or provided you, I will admit to you, I feel like an utter failure, if you have been in this audience longer than two years and saying these things.

As to health care: For years, responsible people like me have been proposing a fix to this. Why is it that a hospital bed should cost more than somebody can afford for it? Hotels can't do that. Hotels can't charge themselves -- can't charge a thousand dollars a day, Motel 6, Holiday Inn, take your pick, they can't charge a thousand dollars a day and then have the government come in and pick up a room insurance program for people that want to go on vacation or stay in a hotel. They have to price it according to the ability of the chosen customer base to pay for it. Medicine doesn't do that. Does anybody wonder why? Anybody wonder why hospitals get away with a thousand, $1500 a night for a hospital bed? It's because somebody's paying for it. Government, insurance companies, or somebody is. You realize what's happening with all this? Do you really think that a Band-Aid costs ten bucks in a hospital? The reason it does is because somebody's willing to pay it without asking. It's absurd. So how do you fix this? Well, you bring competition back into the marketplace, make going to the doctor -- we're not talking about catastrophic. That's a different thing here. But you make going to the doctor for checkups competitive, so that patients can go out and shop for it or price it just like everything else.

But no, we've got HMOs, got these other organizations, and you're given a field of doctors to go through, and go to, and then that's the price you pay. Even at that, we have the world's best health care system. There's no doubt about it. But the idea -- and this is what stuns me the most, wounds me to the heart the greatest -- the idea that because you don't have health care insurance means you don't have medical coverage is absurd. You can go to the doctor and you can pay him. (Gasping.) What a concept. But for some reason the thought of paying medical care, just unacceptable. No, the company ought to pay for that. And there ought not be any copay, and I ought not have to pay a portion of it. I don't know where this comes from, but you have been trapped and you have been lured and you have been screwed into believing the liberal concept of life, that somebody else has to pay for it or else you can't have it. Now, wake up, folks.

You guys are missing the point. We are already paying for it for millions of others. Why not let your tax dollars work for you?

Hmmm ... like letting the government build the Big Dig? That's working out swell in Boston. Or that bridge in Alaska? Would that have worked out well for you?

Why don't you just see your own doc, and when you get the bill, send twice that amount to me and I'll split it with the doc. It'll be cheaper for you than a government plan, you get to choose your doc and I'll like it a lot more too.

Funny how the "class envy" card is only played by people who profess to have "succeeded". Success is all in how you look at it. My parents rarely had two extra nickels to rub together, but I consider them to be the definition of success. They kept a warm, secure, and clean roof over our heads and raised my brother and I in a loving home to have a good work ethic, pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps, believe in Jesus, and to follow the Golden Rule.

Doing the things it takes to get rich takes a lot of time, some talent, more than a little luck, and usually some type of jump-start in the form of startup cash to get the ball rolling. When one has a wife, a family, a mortgage, child support obligations, a car payment, etc, and your parents don't have any more than you do to help you out with, you can't just set all that aside and take the time necessary to go for and get the big bucks. We all have to live within our circumstances to some extent, and with the results of our choices and the life-path we've chosen.

In other words, we can't all be millionaires. Life, society and the economy don't work that way. Some of us, like myself, don't even want to be millionaires. Money doesn't buy the truly important things. Please see my previous post, #94 I think, for a clearer idea of what I'm saying. I'm not talking class envy here because I don't play that game, and I don't think chiefqc is playing it here either. I congratulate anyone who has become (what they themselves may define as) "successful", as long as they are happy and healthy in their situation.

Let me put it this way: I don't hang out at country clubs because I don't like paying $7 for a beer, nor do I like being around the stuffy, vapid, old-money, nose-in-the-air personalities that often frequent such establishments. I know, I've worked at places like that and still do from time to time, and I'm a bit of an informal student of people's behavior -- a people-watcher, if you will.

In counterpoint, I'm sure if you're wealthy, you don't hang out down at the corner bar and talk loud and smart with the guys in their dirty blue-jeans and basebal caps who just got off second shift at the buggy-whip factory. It would be in this setting that I am vastly more at home.

All I was saying is that on talk radio, I'm forced to listen to people who live a very different lifestyle than I do, and I'd like to hear from someone a little closer to my demographic once in a while. That's all. No resentment, no jealousy here, just stating an opinion.

Rush pontificating isn't gonna change this. The Dems have won this argument in the minds of most people. The disfunctions that are built into the system are working, and more and more people, even nominal conservatives, will say uncle. Health Care and a new car, or a vacation, are not comprible. Rush is resorting to 'reducto ad absurdem' to make his argument. Lack of insurance can and does lead to death. It is an existential threat, like the one Isreal faces from Hezbollah. Existential threats can make even stallwart conservatives bend in their adherence to conservative orthodoxy.

I expect what ever Dem gets the Donkey Ticket in 2008 to exploit the hell out of the massive dissatisfaction with our health care / insurance system. It may very well be the deciding issue in the election.

Look for the Dems to 'take the gloves off' and argue for full socialized medicine.

I know that the good talk radio personalities rise to the top and with that comes a bigger paycheck. I just wish they'd do a better job of maintaining the illusion that their lifestyle is more like mine. Just my opinion, that's all. I put up with them, ignore the parts I want to ignore, change the station when necessary, and everything is copacetic.

I've never aspired to wealth because it seems to me that people who have lots of money also have lots of worries to go along with it. You buy a boat and you get a whole slew of problems to go with it. You buy a big RV, same thing, storage, repairs, license, insurance, fuel, water system freezes and bursts a line in the winter, and on and on.

If the stock market has a bad day, I lose maybe fifty bucks. If I were loaded, that same bad day on Wall Street might cost me $5000, or $50,000, or $500,000. That would blow my mind. I realize that it's all relative as a percentage of your nest egg, of course.

I don't like to worry. I don't like headaches. I decided a long time ago to live my life by the KISS system (Keep It Simple, Stupid) because that method worked well for all the people I grew up around and admired during my formative years. I come from simple folk, not stupid mind you, just good, down to earth country people, and I'm proud of it.

Of course, there's always the school of thought that says that if you have enough money, then you have nothing to worry about. But alas, I couldn't live my life like that. It's too cutthroat for me, too competitive. I'm not wired that way.

Medishare has a catastrophic policy attached to each plan.

I am not sure if this plan is the one you are speaking of, but they do state on their home page that they are not an insurance plan.

HOW DOES MEDI-SHARE WORK?
"Medishare is a non-insurance healthcare alternative that brings Christians together to share their medical bills on a voluntary basis. This unique healthcare solution is based on the biblical principles of sharing and caring and encourages brothers and sisters in Christ to stand in the gap for one another. "

http://www.medi-share.org/how_does_it_work.aspx

Now, if they do have a catastrophic health plan attached their program, they would be subject to insurance law and by necessity be regulated by each and every dept. of insurance in every state the plan is sold in. Also, the insurance carrier would be required to file for permission to sell the plan in each and every state it is sold.

It may be that the people who marketed this plan to you, or people you know are also insurance agents who sell individual catastrophic plans along with the enrollment in this sharing program. Therefore, they are able to limit your liability in a large claim. A sharing plan however is not insurance and can never be offered as insurance without running afoul of a great deal of state and federal legislation.

Also, one site giving their assessment of Christian Medishare was not very pleased with their service. There are (apparently) a number of these sharing plans, and one review was not too kind.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/healthinsurance.htm

CHRISTIAN CARE MEDI-SHARE [P. O. Box 1779, Melbourne, FL 32902. 800-374-2562 (voice), 407-726-8016 (fax), medshare@iu.net (e-mail), www.tccm.org (web site)]

This program was also highly recommended to me by some of the respondents, most of who had experience with other medical sharing plans before changing to Christian Care Medi-Share. I received only one unfavorable comment about this program. The normal plan costs $330 per month for a family of three or more members. One respondent, a missions secretary in a large church, said Christian Care Medi-Share is “beneficial and professional” and they “communicate thoroughly.”

The following comment was made by the pastor of a church with a larger staff who used Christian Brotherhood for eight years before changing to Christian Care Medi-Share: “With Christian Care the coverage is much better than with Brotherhood. Also the costs are less, that is why we went with them. However, we have found them to have a red tape trail that leaves you hanging to get payment from them. In the meantime your hospital and doctors are left hanging. This will bring threats from the doctors or hospitals. In short, we have found it much better to pay a little, $5 or so, on each bill each month until Christian Care gets around to doing something or telling you something. You will also have to fight with them to get coverage. They are not as willing to help in problems. However they are very good at negotiating with doctors and hospitals to get the bill reduced, once they decide they have to pay” (Pastor Doug Hammett,

It used to be health insurance was purchased to cover very large expenses that statistically would unlikely happen, but "could" happen. So it used to be protection against financial ruin from serious illness or disease.

Insurance companies colluded with health care providers to convince people they could not afford regular routine care without purchasing insurance.One way to convince people is to artificially raise the prices of care to make it out of reach to pay out of pocket.
This way...health care providers make out big with artificially inflated fees (which also have to cover those who don't have insurance and don't pay their bills)
And insurance companies force people to purchase policies.

A trip to the ER in the middle of the night for a child's ear infection? You can expect a bill for $300-$600.
I took my son to the ER for a gash in his head...they glued it shut to the tune of $900.
A young family with more than 2 kids could easily go under with run-of-the mill well visits and occasional ER visits.

If the racket between the insurance providers and care providers were broken it would force the health care providers to offer market driven fees and compete for customers.

"The disfunctions that are built into the system are working..."

There ya go.

Between runaway lawyers suing the pants off every doctor who misses a stitch while closing up the gash in a kid's chin, to the illegals clogging up emergency rooms across the country, their plan is working well.

The people in charge (lawmakers) are, unfortunately, able to afford their health care no matter how expensive it gets, not to mention being in the pockets of the wrong people, so they wait way too long to do anything about it.

The cost of health care/insurance triples in five years, the cost of gas doubles in three years; eventually something has got to give.

I'm really, really curious to see where things will be in this country in 10, 20, 50 years (if I'm still here for 50, I probably won't even recognize the USA anymore.) Barring nationwide work stoppages, a wholesale ruination of our economy, and massive (and I mean massive) marches on Washington by the proles to the point of actually busting down the doors of the Senate chamber and assuming control ourselves, I don't see much changing.

The whole system may be too far gone already and need to come crashing down to rock bottom and just be started over again. Get the FedGov back to it's Constitutional duties and nothing more, do away with the political correctness mentality, initiate and complete tort reform, enact school vouchers or privatize education and make it competitive...ahh, to dream.

Meanwhile, I'll just keep on keepin' on, and concentrate on that over which I have some control. Hunting season is coming. That's my main focus this time of year. I love the crisp, cool days of autumn in Minnesota. 87 degrees, humid and sticky today though, so it's not here yet.

We have Blue Cross. When we raised our deductible to $5000, our co-pay went up to $30, so you'd better believe I make sure my kids are truly SICK and in need of a doctor before we make an appointment. At this point, though, we're pretty much stuck due to the whole pre-existing condition thing. We're actually both healthy, but I had a gallstone attack last year, dh was diagnosed with fibromyalgia a few years ago (but has since recovered), and I don't think another company would accept us. We are working toward getting our savings built up just in case we ever do need to pay that deductible.

So pay the bill yourself (if you spent your dough on things other than insurance) or pay it now, and borrow to pay it off over the time that the medical treatment made you able to work.

You still want ME to pay?

Nope. Never said that. However, I think that rules need to be relaxed between federal and state laws that will allow insurance companies to become more competative, and to allow them to allow more people into groups, which can spread the risk among more payers. Allow people to make "ala carte" coverage choices, chosing exactly what they do and don't want covered. For example, I'm single, and I think that I've gone to the Dr office twice in the last 5 years. I'd be more than happy to pay the cost of those visits out of pocket. But I can't. I have to pay for office visit coverage, just like a family of 5, with kids who go to the Dr office once a month, or even more. I'd like to be able to choose exactly what coverage I want, rather than just what my deductable is (though that does have a similar effect).

Those are just some of the things that could be done to help control the cost of insurance.

BTW, if you've got a medical emergency that may lead to your incapacity, maybe you could point to to a "lender" who will loan you many thousands of dollars with the chance that you'll never work again... And I once conducted an experiment: I called around to gastroenerologists, and asked them if I could just pay for their services with cash, because I didn't have insurance. Interestingly enough, NOT ONE would allow me to make an appointment. When they learned that I did have insurance, but wanted to pay cash, they were OK with that. The idea of an office visit without having to deal with the paperwork and getting nearly the same amount of money was attractive: But the possibility of having to provide expensive services without guarentee of payment wasn't something they were interested in providing: And I don't blame them.

The idea behind insurance is that for the most part, most people will not need medical services. The minority of people should only need minimal services, and very few will need major services. I'm not asking for anyone to pay for my medical services or insurance. However, medical insurance needs to be opened up to the market forces to make the cost more affordable. And maybe states should create an "assigned risk pool," for catastropic insurance, sort of like they do with auto insurance.

Mark

Health insurance IS a mess,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Amen, and the prime reason is that the government has already been involved in medical care for many years, starting with Medicare forty years ago. There was a time when most working people could afford to pay the doctor for most treatment, all they really had to worry about was catastrophic illness or accident. I have coverage on my job and the part that I pay is very reasonable, the problem is that the copays and deductibles will eat me out of house and home before they are met. I once worked with a man who paid ninety dollars a week for his portion of the "employer-provided" health insurance and he told me that he and his wife never went to the doctor because they could not afford the co-pay! I asked why he didn't just cancel his coverage and use that money for office visits and he said his wife insisted on keeping the insurance in case one of them had to be hospitalized!

Health insurance truly is a mess but the answer is to get the government out of health care not deeper into it.

If you have a medical emergency, and say you can't move your legs, well there simply aren't too many options for you. Have you seen the cost of neurosurgeons lately?

What do you think neurosurgeons should cost?

How do you think they should be paid?

IHMO, there's nothing more valuable than a good neurosurgeon. However, there's a problem with the way they're forced to bill for their services, which has already been mentioned here... After I had my surgery, I received a letter from my insurance company telling me that they had paid my doctor $14,000. The following day, I received a bill from my Dr for $23,000. I began to panic when I thought that I was going to have to pay the $9,000 difference, when I thought that I'd only be responsible for about $1,000 (due to deductable and out of pocket maximums) for the surgeon bill... Of course, I received that bill on a Saturday. When I called the Dr office on the following Monday, they told me that "this is how it works," and that I'd be getting another bill for just under $900, and that's because they "write off" the difference when dealing with insurance companies. I asked if I didn't have insurance, could I have just paid them the $15,000 for my surgery, and they told me that without insurance, they never would have taken my case, and I wouldn't have been able to have had the surgery scheduled.

What needs to be done is a) keep the government OUT of the medical AND insurance businesses, and b) Relax some of the rules, allowing both medical and insurance services to become responsive to market forces.

Mark

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