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Teacher Suspended For Hanging Foreign Flags In Classroom [Colorado]
ABC 7 ^ | August 23, 2006

Posted on 08/23/2006 3:44:34 PM PDT by ncountylee

A Jefferson County geography teacher was suspended on the second day of school for hanging several flags from other countries in his classroom at Carmody Middle School.

Eric Hamlin said the flags were part of a world geography lesson plan and refused to remove them. Hamlin was escorted out of class and Wednesday morning by the school's principal after he refused to remove the flags of China and Mexico.

The school district placed him on administrative leave, citing a Colorado law that makes it illegal to display foreign flags permanently in schools.

"Under state law foreign flags can only be in the classroom because it's tied to the curriculum. And the principal looked at the curriculum, talked to the teacher, and found that there was really no curriculum coming up in the next few weeks that supported those flags being in the classroom," said Jeffco Public Schools spokeswoman Lynn Setzer.

But Hamlin said although his curriculum may not speak specifically about those flags, they are used as reference tools for world geography.

"It's much along the lines of a science teacher who puts up a map of the solar sysem. They may not spend every day and every lesson talking about Mars, but they want the students to see that and to see the patterns of the planets and the order, and the students will observe that, and absorb that learning visually," Hamlin said.

Hamlin said that the school district is not only depriving him of a teaching tool but also taking away from his students' education.

"The major problem I see here is with the law that limits educators," Hamlin said.

"We have to uphold state law. We really have no discretion when it comes to upholding the law," Setzer said.

Hamlin said he understands that the district is following state law so he's met with the ACLU and he said, if necessary, he plans on fighting the constitutionality of the law.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: aclu; education; erichamlin; hamlin; teacher
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To: mware
I'm happy to read that geography is still offered to kids! Sounds as though you're doing a great job keeping the students interested.
101 posted on 08/23/2006 5:39:08 PM PDT by grellis (I don't know, let me ask my I Ching)
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To: ncountylee

I got suspended once for hanging a.... oh, fLag, never mind.


102 posted on 08/23/2006 5:47:37 PM PDT by KarinG1 (Some of us are trying to engage in philosophical discourse. Please don't allow us to interrupt you.)
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To: LasVegasMac

Great response!

I see that you have no answer to that.

Sorry that not everyone thinks that reading about something in a book AND actually seeing it is just too much to handle.

Well done.

Me. I'll stick with my idea of wanting to actually see and experience things, instead of only reading about them.


103 posted on 08/23/2006 5:48:31 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: frankiep

This is HUGH! - There now. That felt good. No one says that any more on FR.


104 posted on 08/23/2006 5:51:57 PM PDT by Twinkie (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.)
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To: frankiep
would you say that simply reading enough about human anatomy is sufficient for someone to become a doctor; or do you think that they should take time to actually see human organs first hand (a least two or three times) before being allowed to perform that double bypass.

By your "logic" hanging a picture of Galen or Hippocates on the wall would facilitate their learning of anatomy.

One does not need to flag hanging to learn about WHERE a country is; WHAT its physical geography is like; HOW its people live, etc.

105 posted on 08/23/2006 5:56:15 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

Bottom line. Are you willing to deprive your children from learning as much as they can because some beareaucrats say so?

If you don't think that this is a nonsensical, pointless, and potentially harmful (to the student's education) law then I don't know what to tell you.

And again, your speeding example is an entirely different animal. You cannot compare a law regulating how fast you can drive two-plus tons of machinery down a road with a law saying that teachers are forbidden from displaying flags in a geography classroom. I would hope that people here on FR would be able to make that distinction.


106 posted on 08/23/2006 5:57:21 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

OH MY GOD! You cannot seriously be making this arguement.

No, you do not need to hang a flag to learn where a counry is or how its people live. It is called a teaching aid. Flags represent and identify countries.

No wonder American public schools are a laughing stock with sentiments like this.


107 posted on 08/23/2006 6:04:51 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: SoldierDad
For instance, in North Dakota it is still legal to shoot Native Americans provided you circle the wagons before hand. This is an example of an extremely stupid law; one that should go unheeded.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Are you saying people should not have to waste time & effort circling the wagons, before shooting Native Americans?

Last time I looked, no one was trying to shoot Native Americans in North Dakota; nor does this law REQUIRE they be shoot.

However, by requiring those who are attempting to shoot Native Americans to circle their wagons first, it gives the intended victims time to flea, and also gives law enforcement more time to arrive and stop (Since N.A.'s are supposedly legal to shoot, it is not attempted murder.) a nasty disturbance of the peace, and possible reckless endangerment of non- Native American bystanders.

Are you saying that is a BAD thing?

108 posted on 08/23/2006 6:05:33 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: Dog Gone
Yup!

...refused to remove them.

109 posted on 08/23/2006 6:07:33 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: Twinkie
This is HUGH!

Well, HELLO, Hugh! We've missed you around her, lately!

;-)

110 posted on 08/23/2006 6:09:34 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: frankiep
You are not worth the waste of time for an intelligent debate.

That, and I have a habit of not replying to morons.

Colorado state law said "no flags".

I suggest you plead your liberal, PC case to them. You seem to be so full of yourself....

Me. I'll stick with my idea ...

And if you feel so strong about this.....

Me. I'll stick with my idea of wanting to actually see and experience things, instead of only reading about them.....

Then I suggest you, personally, pay for each and every kid to "actually see and experience things.."

No?

Then STFU.

111 posted on 08/23/2006 6:11:51 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam........not fit for human consumption.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

That has to be the most amazing post I have ever seen on FR. And I don't mean that in a good way.


112 posted on 08/23/2006 6:12:19 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: frankiep

The answer to your question is of course not.

But this particular law you object to is trivial compared to the REAL problems we have in our public school system from leftwing indoctrination. Students reading Rigoberto Menchu instead of Adam Smith? Students being taught that the founding principles of our country are nothing but constructs used to prop up the power of racist, misogynistic, capitalistic oppressors, etc. etc.

You are elevating this triviality far beyond its real importance. Your arguments are those that should really be addressed in the Colorado legislature, and there are not enough facts in this article to justify your position. Was there a problem with marxist high school teachers permanently displaying certain flags (Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, whatever the regime of the moment for the left is) having nothing to do with their teaching curriculum, but rather part of their leftwing indoctrination? Who knows? I don't, and I suspect that you are taking a strong position without knowing either.


113 posted on 08/23/2006 6:13:28 PM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: dandelion
The curriculum doesn't have to be coming up in the next few weeks for a teacher to decorate a classroom with relevant objects.

Agreed. But since this was a matter of law and not simply school policy, are you saying that you would have refused to take down the foreign flags until the curriculum demanded it?

adminstrators spend their time on garbage like this - micromanaging Geography Displays to make a political statement - instead of figuring out how to TEACH OUR CHILDREN.

I submit that the teacher is wasting the school's and the students' time on garbage like seeking ACLU counsel to find the law unconstitutional. If it's not a big deal, why is he -- literally -- making a federal case of it? Is that what you call "teaching?" Hi, Dandelion! Please don't give some weak reply about this turning into a living civics lesson.

114 posted on 08/23/2006 6:18:53 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Hey, Genius! If YOU aren't a Muslim fascist, Bush wasn't talking to you! So why are you offended?)
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To: LasVegasMac
Do you have any critical thinking or reasoning abilities at all? Because you're all over the place.

Colorado state law said "no flags".

Other state laws also say that if a woman is driving a car that a man must be walking in front of it to guide her and block traffic. And still other state laws say that you cannot drink a beer while standing up. Looks like we have an awful lot of criminals walking around based on that.

Then I suggest you, personally, pay for each and every kid to "actually see and experience things.." No?

Umm. I pay taxes so that kids can go to school and learn things. And here's a news flash: they won't turn into little commies by seeing other nation's flags.

STFU.

Is this what your arguement in favor of not teaching kids basic things about the world has devolved to?

115 posted on 08/23/2006 6:22:32 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: goldfinch
Per additional info in post #74, he's had the flags up for 9 years & his display has about 50 flags. The original article said *including* Mexico & China. The reporter for the original piece did a poor job describing the display.

He prolly spent his own money on the flags, so could be a case of a teacher digging in his heels against his state "micromanaging" the way he teaches his class.

This crap starts because of judicial activists, the illegal immigrant kids have the right not to be offended kinda thing. It makes states go proactive, make nit-picky laws instead of a good old fashioned, "get over it" getting the job done.
116 posted on 08/23/2006 6:25:10 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: frankiep
Okay, Genius. It IS a "teaching aid"...an ILLEGAL one, the way he did it.

BUT did it EVER occur to you that he could have LEGALLY posted large, full color PICTURES, equally a "teaching aid", of said flags on the room's bulletin board? When they actual part of the curriculum came up, THEN he could have temporarily LEGALLY displayed the flags, as well.

Instead, he chose first to hang the legally proscribed flags themselves; then willfully commit insubordination over the issue, rather than taking a very simple, LEGAL way out.

117 posted on 08/23/2006 6:26:32 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: ncountylee

"It's much along the lines of a science teacher who puts up a map of the solar sysem.




Fine. In a geography class, display MAPS of countries around the world. The science teacher doesn't have a flag up for Uranus.


118 posted on 08/23/2006 6:27:55 PM PDT by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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To: fight_truth_decay

The law he's against is new.


119 posted on 08/23/2006 6:29:23 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: doug from upland

"It's much along the lines of a science teacher who puts up a map of the solar system."

AND...does the science teacher put of maps of only SELECT planets of the solar system?


120 posted on 08/23/2006 6:30:37 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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