Posted on 08/21/2006 10:33:28 AM PDT by RWR8189
BENT JBAIL, Lebanon - It would aid the cause of peace if Canada dropped Hezbollah from a list of banned terrorist organizations, according to two Canadian MPs now on a fact-finding mission to Lebanon.
When asked if he was in favour of Hezbollah being taken off the terror list, Etobicoke Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj said: ''Yes, I would be.'' He likened the situation in the Middle East to Northern Ireland, where ''if there wasn't the possibility for London to negotiate with the IRA, you'd still have bombings....
''Hezbollah has a political wing. They have members of parliament. They have two cabinet ministers. You want to encourage politicians in this military organization so that the centre of gravity shifts to them.''
New Democrat Peggy Nash, who represents the Toronto riding of Parkdale-High Park, said her discussions in Lebanon had led her to believe ''that it is just not helpful to label them a terrorist organization.
''If the political parties in Lebanon who may disagree with Hezbollah, and be opposed to them and their philosophy, can figure out a way to work with Hezbollah and try to get along internally, then perhaps we should take a cue from that.''
This was the message that both MPs said they would bring back to their caucuses, and eventually to the House of Commons, when they return to Canada later this week.
Their visit came as Israeli armoured forces continued to withdraw from southern Lebanon Sunday,36 hours after an Israeli commando raid in northern Lebanon threatened the UN-brokered ceasefire.
Maria Moureni, the Bloc Quebecois MP for Ahuntsic, is also a member of the Canadian delegation that forms part of a week-long tour of Syria, Lebanon and Egypt organized by the National Council on Canada-Arab Relations.
Asked about her opinion of Hezbollah or its terrorist status in Canada, Moureni replied tersely: ''According to the government of Canada, Hezbollah is a terrorist group.''
Earlier in the day, after being taken to the ruins of a house in Qana, where 28 members of the same extended family had died in an Israeli air raid, Moureni, who is of Lebanese descent, criticized Prime Minister Stephen Harper for supporting Israel during the war.
''This is Canada's shame,'' Moureni said. ''Mr. Harper has given us a rather negative international image. We can see here that the attacks were (far) from being measured. The devastation is incredible.''
As he met with Lebanese in towns such as Qana and Bent Jbail, that were badly hit during the war, Wrzesnewskyj repeatedly denounced Harper's support for Israel.
''We are deeply ashamed that our prime minister had some incredibly irresponsible comments to make at the beginning of the war,'' Wrzesnewskyj told a group of Lebanese who had lost many relatives during the conflict.
It was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who placed Hezbollah on Canada's terror list when they were in power. While acknowledging this, Wrzesnewskyj said: ''When you realize that a mistake has been made that does not provide for a solution, you don't entrench your decision.''
The NDP's Nash said Harper ''had misread the amount of devastation that took place. What I am picking up here is that the time has come for a negotiated settlement, and it would be useful if Canada was a voice for negotiation. Canada's response was disappointing and bewildered people here.
''I feel just as badly for those who have suffered in Israel. It shows how futile war is.''
Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro, who represents Peterborough, Ont., pulled out of the trip at the last moment, citing security concerns. But Wrzesnewskyj and Mazen Chouaib, executive director of the Canada-Arab Council, both insisted that it was the prime minister's office that had scuppered the trip.
The Canadian parliamentarians were outnumbered by journalists during what was a long day that started with a visit to a suburb of the port city of Tyre, where several apartment blocks had been flattened by bombs. They were visibly shaken when they were taken to rows of freshly marked graves in Qana and heard graphic accounts of what it was like to be there during the bombing.
Later, in Bent Jbail, widely regarded as the most resolutely pro-Hezbollah community in the south, the Canadian parliamentarians had a chance encounter with the local MP, Ali Bazzi of the Amal Movement. He provided a brief summary of war damage to about 90 per cent of the 1,000 homes and all of the schools in the town.
While ''respecting the Canadian government's point of view,'' Bazzi said, ''we see Hezbollah as the resistance, as freedom fighters'' comparable to George Washington.
As they travelled narrow back roads, the Canadians passed scores of homes shattered by the war and got trapped several times in chaotic traffic caused by the destruction of roads and bridges.
A $25-million aid package for Lebanon announced last week by the Canadian government will be put to immediate use to help the war-torn country, International Cooperation Minister Josee Verner said on Sunday in Ottawa.
''As everybody knows in Canada, the victims of this conflict are the Lebanese people, and we have to help them as soon as possible,'' Verner said in an interview with CTV's Question period.
The overall aid announced for Lebanon now adds up to $30.5 million in total. Verner said the money could be used to help rebuild homes, schools, clinics and water systems damaged during recent attacks by Israel in its conflict with Hezbollah.
Two Israeli tanks, their crews standing on top, stood silent watch on a hill overlooking Bent Jbail when the Canadians did a walkabout there. But the parliamentarians missed by a few minutes seeing a stack of Katyusha rockets prohibited by a UN ceasefire resolution last week being nonchalantly loaded into the back of a van by Hezbollah fighters in the nearby border town of Yaroun.
Wrzesnewskyj and Nash had paid for their trips to the Middle East or had them paid for by their parties, they said. Air tickets and hotels for the Bloc's Moureni had been paid for by the Canada-Arab Council, she said.
''The Quebec-Israel people organize such trips all the time and nobody says its propaganda,'' she said. ''It is normal to accept such an invitation.''
Chouaib said the trip was similar to many ''organized by the Israeli lobby in Canada for politicians and journalists.''
Wrzesnewskyj hoped to pay a visit to Israel before the end of the month. An NDP colleague was slated to visit Israel, Nash said.
Meanwhile, after a cabinet meeting Sunday in Jerusalem, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said his government rejected the inclusion of UN peacekeepers from countries that do not have diplomatic relations with Israel.
Such a policy may make the work of those struggling to put together a force of 15,000 blue helmets to police the ceasefire more difficult. The only countries to volunteer a significant number of troops so far are the Muslim nations of Malaysia, Indonesia and Bangladesh. European countries such as France had indicated a willingness to participate in the force, but have been very slow to make concrete commitments because of concerns about the rules of engagement.
At a news conference Sunday in Beirut, Lebanese Defence Minister Elias Murr said anyone in Lebanon violating the ceasefire would be considered collaborators with Israel and dealt with ''decisively'' by Lebanese forces deploying to the south of the country
Kenney jumps on Liberals for Mideast comments
Updated Tue. Aug. 22 2006 2:03 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
The Conservative government is lashing out at comments made by Liberal MPs who were on a fact-finding mission in Lebanon and suggested Canada should be more open to talking to Hezbollah.
Tory MP Jason Kenney, parliamentary secretary to the prime minister, said the comments are nothing less than a sign of support for terrorist groups.
"Their idea of a balanced approach is one where Israel is always wrong," Kenney told a news conference on Tuesday.
"This represents a totally irresponsible approach to foreign security policy."
Liberal MP Borys Wrzesnewskyj, who is among three MPs on the fact-finding mission, said Monday he favours changing a Canadian law that forbids contact with known terrorist organizations.
He said the law undermines efforts to obtain lasting peace between Israel and Hezbollah guerrillas.
Wrzesnewskyj is also quoted in some newspapers as saying Hezbollah should be taken off Ottawa's official list of terrorist organizations.
However, Wrzesnewskyj later denied those reports.
"I've said all along that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and will continue to be,'' he said. "Where I have difficulty is with the legislation that says a group on the list cannot be communicated with.''
In a statement, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said there is "no way we will delist a terrorist group."
On Tuesday, Kenney compared the terror group Hezbollah to the German Nazi party of the 1930s, which had candidates that ran in elections but also made violence against Jewish people its chief aim.
He said just because Hezbollah has a political wing doesn't mean it isn't a terrorist group.
Kenney said there is nothing to negotiate with an organization motivated by hate, and decried the Liberal MPs for even suggesting it.
"The Liberal Party of Canada cannot claim to be prepared to be ready to govern Canada if they can't establish a coherent position on such a clear cut issue as the terrorist nature of Hezbollah."
Liberal Opposition Leader Bill Graham issued a statement late Monday that did not refer directly to the Wrzesnewskyj controversy, but affirmed his party's commitment to keeping Hezbollah on the official terror list.
"The Liberal Party of Canada ... originally listed Hezbollah as a terrorist organization under Canadian law and ... we still strongly support keeping Hezbollah on that list.
"Any suggestion to the contrary does not reflect the official position of our party.''
Wrzesnewskyj is in Lebanon with New Democrat MP Peggy Nash, who suggested over the weekend that Canada could follow the lead of other political parties who are in contact with Hezbollah despite opposition to their tactics.
The visit by MPs, including Bloc Quebecois Maria Mourani, was organized by the National Council on Canada Arab-Relations.
It was supposed to be an all-party affair until Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro backed out, citing security reasons.
The MPs visited the hard-hit towns of Qana, Bint Jbeil and Aytaroun. Qana was the scene of the single deadliest attack. An Israeli missile destroyed a building where civilians had been hiding, killing 28.
The fighting killed hundreds and saw tens of thousands displaced in Lebanon. Israel launched the offensive in mid-July, after Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers.
There is now a fragile ceasefire in place in the region, and some progress is being made on the deployment of an international stabilization force to the region.
At the beginning of the offensive, Prime Minister Stephen Harper was criticized by some MPs for saying Israel's response to the kidnapping was "measured."
With files from The Canadian Press
> And you call me deranged...
I didn't call you "deranged" at all: but "if the shoe fits..."
> Oh yeah, I forgot to add Quebec and Vancouver to the list of loopy Canadian provences.
Yikes! Crikey! Quebecouis and Vangcouverites, too! All of 'em foaming at the mouth and just across the Border! You're fair *surrounded* by enemies, mate! How do you sleep at nite?
> BTW, Americans don't fear Canadians, didn't you see the South Park movie?
I'm sure a few cartoons should keep you safe. Sleep well.
"...that was a nutty post."
Here's a hint: I stopped taking you on this thread seriously, quite a few posts ago.
You're either writing very clever satire, or your views on this matter are not worthy of serious consideration and intelligent debate.
I hear Al Qaeda is building a "political" wing. Would that get them off the hook about what they have done?
They could come to the US and run as Democrats.
Who would know the difference?
I don't know of any case where a parent has been charged , let alone jailed , for teaching their children.
Then there is this:
REGINA, April 13, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - One of the most concerning court decisions against religious freedom in Canada has been reversed. The highest court in the province of Saskatchewan has reversed a 2002 decision by the Court of Queen's Bench which ruled that a man who placed references to Bible verses on homosexuality into a newspaper ad was guilty of inciting hatred.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/apr/06041305.html
And newly arrived muslim women would be in a position to say no? Most 3rd worlders moving to the US or Canada tend to group in ethnic enclaves, and thanks to "diversity", they often have little pressure to learn the language and culture of the host country. For someone to arrive from Pakistan, move into a Toronto Pakistani community, the pressure to obey their local sharia courts must be intense, male or female.
Yes, it is good that it was finally rejected. Hopefully there is a resurgence of conservatism and common sense in Canada.
You've gotta be $hitt%n me! What's the excuse for sending 1,100 Somalians to your neck of the woods? Did you say "more" as in you already have some? Idaho isn't known for it's welfare friendly govt. What are your nutless senators doing about it?
Oh for the love of God ... read up a little more on what's going on in Canada will ya? You hear a story about our leftists and Canada is sunk? Unbelievable. I heard the other day that Cindy Sheehan ....
Sharia has no power here ... it was turned down. Like I said earlier, you should read up a little more. Maybe then you wouldn't sound so ... whiny.
Keep trying ... but don't hurt yourself. ; )
With comments like that, you can kiss what little credibility you thought you had good bye.
breaking news---Canadian soldier just killed + some wounded.
Tell me what else it will take to wake Canada up, pal. YOU tell me.
I don't live there (I guess you do), but have spent plenty of time there. Droolingly liberal country. There's not enough money to make me live there. The people are generally nice enough.......but they are too "sheepish" for my taste.
But hey........that's me. Besides, I don't need your stamp of approval on my "credibility" whatsoever. In fact, I don't give a flying fiddler's damn what you think. K?
> Keep trying ... but don't hurt yourself. ; )
If you keep doing that, RightOnline, ye'll go Blind! /sarc
> But hey........that's me. Besides, I don't need your stamp of approval on my "credibility" whatsoever. In fact, I don't give a flying fiddler's damn what you think. K?
Come on, mate. Please be reasonable and retain your credibility. You'd have to admit that division amongst the Western democracies as to how to pursue the WOT is good for the militant Muslim enemies, and bad for the rest of Civilization, true?
What is to be gained by tearing away at Canadians the way you're doing? Canada has troops in Afghanistan and they've done a good job fighting and killing the Bad Guys. Same with New Zealand's SAS and Engineers. And a Moslem bullet or bomb or IED will kill a Kiwi or a Canuck just as dead as it will kill a Yank.
If everyone in the "Conservative" US keeps behaving like this -- alienating your allies -- a very few Yankee rednecks could end up facing the militant Muslim hordes alone: and losing spectacularly.
You might think folk who are not "Conservative-Yanks" are soft, or "p*ssys" or whatever. That's not helping the WOT, and it's making it easier for the Bad Guys to win: because they are facing a diluted opponent.
(I'm Conservative but not a Yank. What does that make me? An Enemy? What if I'm also Canadian? And Kiwi? Two extra reasons to call me a P*ssy perhaps (but not to my face I suspect...)
Be reasonable! You can't seriously think so.
Because if you do, to this extent you are giving material aid and comfort to the Enemy: something I'm sure you'd rather not be doing if you look at the Big Picture.
OK so there's an appeal to reason, "pal". Maybe you can please tell ME what's wrong with that picture.
Making popcorn and waiting...
Not a damn thing. Crapo is pro-illegal, and his emails say we must be stupid if we think the senate bill is an amnesty bill, etc (yes, I'm paraphrasing).
We have a mosque and an Islamic center. I pine for the good old days of having a racist reputation, to keep out the riff raff. I tell you what, they do a pro-hezbolla rally in downtown Boise, they better watch out. Idaho is VERY well armed and full of survivalists.
But even though Idaho has seriously clamped down on welfare, the Somali's get federal money.
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