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Breaking - Ramsey Case
CNN ^ | 8/18/06 | CNN

Posted on 08/18/2006 9:11:49 AM PDT by fivecatsandadog

A U.S. law enforcement official tells CNN that the man held in the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey offered details about the condition of her body that have never been made public.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: bogus; fraudtracey; jmkjbr; jonbenet; karr; murder; ramsey; thailand
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To: Lx

Thailand?


481 posted on 08/19/2006 11:07:20 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: BunnySlippers

That doesn't explain too much...not to me, anyway.

SCTC could stand for quite a few things.

The strangeness is that Karr made such a big deal and flourish with this in a HS yearbook, then years later confesses to a notorious murder in which not only SBTC appears as a big deal and flourish at the end of the ransom note, but the word Victory accompanies it, which dovetails quite well with the concept he was trying to get across in the yearbook entry.

The idea of personally triumphing over others is the idea he was pushing back then, and if you read the ransom note it taunts the Ramseys and esp. John Ramsey, and makes all kinds of braggadocios statements that are totally beside the point of a mere ransom plot...or even a mere sex crime, for that matter.


482 posted on 08/19/2006 11:08:03 AM PDT by txrangerette ("We are fighting al-Qaeda, NOT Aunt Sadie"...Dick Cheney commenting on the wiretaps!!)
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To: Sacajaweau

DNA alone is not sufficient for conviction. you go to a store, you look through some clothing there - touching the items as you browse. your DNA is on those clothes. now some person comes in and buys the coat you were just touching, the next day they commit a murder and leave that coat at the scene. your DNA is on that coat too.


483 posted on 08/19/2006 11:08:15 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: commish

WOW! That's something. Do they have DNA evidence in those cases?


484 posted on 08/19/2006 11:09:46 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: Conservative Texan Mom

and if you were the killer, an intruder, wouldn't you have taken that rope and the paintbrush with you when you left the house? why leave it behind as evidence, when all you had to do was slip it in your pocket.


485 posted on 08/19/2006 11:10:42 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: stlnative
The more I read about this case the more I lean towards Karr's involvement. So many things are fitting together, little things, that point in his direction.

I'm not as concerned as to whether the DNA matches, there wasn't much DNA left at the crime scene and Henry Lee has repeatedly said this isn't a DNA case. The more important fact to me is if they can tie him to Colorado during the time of the murder.

486 posted on 08/19/2006 11:11:41 AM PDT by I want to know
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To: Conservative Texan Mom

I like your characterizations of where the ransom note - writer appeared to be coming from. Like he was some great big deal, and he was letting them know he was so great and so clever and powerful that he could pull off whatever, get away with it, and there was nothing even they...well-known and wealthy people...or anyone else for that matter, could do about it.

Not so much a ransom note, was it, really?

No, it was more of a self declaration that he wanted to communicate. Include in that the point that he even knew about the 118,000 dollar bonus. Oh, my, how very clever and "victorious" he is. See, everybody!!! See!!!


487 posted on 08/19/2006 11:15:24 AM PDT by txrangerette ("We are fighting al-Qaeda, NOT Aunt Sadie"...Dick Cheney commenting on the wiretaps!!)
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To: oceanview
I'm waiting for the DNA because this guy may not have done it, but for sake of argument, if JonBenet was his first killing, she would be more significant. Other killings may be an attempt to relive his experience with JonBenet. In other words, she was an obsession. Other victims may be play into his fantasy with JonBenet, but since they aren't her they don't get the *ceremonial* treatment he gave her after he killed her.

Entirely speculation mind you.
488 posted on 08/19/2006 11:19:01 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: Suzy Quzy

"wouldn't he know if his wife was corresponding with him??"

Last night on the news someone said that Patsy NEVER corresponded with the pervert. Emails were diverted to the police.


489 posted on 08/19/2006 11:21:58 AM PDT by Gimme
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To: txrangerette

hmmmmm... You're right, maybe it was not truly set out to be a ransom note but more of a bragging and I am in control note. Maybe we need to stop looking at it as a ransom note.


490 posted on 08/19/2006 11:22:30 AM PDT by stlnative
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To: fivecatsandadog

Whats the latest on the Santa Clause Doll?


491 posted on 08/19/2006 11:24:50 AM PDT by TET1968 (SI MINOR PLUS EST ERGO NIHIL SUNT OMNIA)
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To: oceanview
The hardest thing is to put someone "at the scene". There's a LOT of DNA at this scene. It will do away with "reasonable doubt". But if you have been reading my posts, you will find that I work on a "three way" catch.

We don't want him getting off on an "insanity" plea or even "2nd degree".

He was very careful to say on "live TV" that "it was an accident".....He also said: "That makes it 2nd degree".

This is not a "stupid" person. He may want us to think he's nuts. But he's toooo deliberate.

This was well planned. Even the long note...A ransom note for a dead girl? And you expect them to find the body and send you the money?? No....It goes to his "accident" statement. "See, it was an accident. I just wanted the money."

He didn't think that part out correctly. He must have been "mentally excited" at the time he wrote the note which was probably only a few hours before the murder. (It was not written at the scene.)

About the note: When I do a job or write a letter to a client or whatever, I make the rule to wait 24 hours and look at it again. It's VERY difficult to catch your own errors or to write something which might be misinterpreted. Short and to the point is the rule. His "rambling" did him in.

One of his "live" comments about the crime was: "It'll take several hours" to explain it.

492 posted on 08/19/2006 11:33:01 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: oceanview

Your post wasn't addressed to me...but to be wildly speculative, I think there are a lot of reasons those things can me left behind/explained, not the least of which is that he used items from the house so he would be better off leaving them than risk being discovered with them later.

IF (and that is a huge gigantic if) he is the one who did it, I honestly believe he did not intend to kill her.


493 posted on 08/19/2006 11:35:12 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: oceanview; Sacajaweau
It's not uncommon to leave murder weapons. Her hair was also tangle in it, and the knot was tight. It's possible that it wouldn't come off that easy. Also, this murder may have been part of a sick sexual fantasy. If the perp was in a frenzy, it might have hit him pretty hard once he realized his sadistic sex fetish had killed her. He freaks, and pops her over the head in a panic. He was suddenly remorseful, and not thinking in a rational sense. This crime may not have been as systematic and calculated as it seemed. A crime was planned, but I think what happened was not part of the initial plan. Once he realizes he has killed this person that he believes he loves, his personality takes on the characteristics of a grief stricken person, not a methodical killer. Who ever the sicko is, he's not a rational person. I don't think we can expect him to behave like one.

If the Ramsey's had done it, I would expect a more rational crime scene. I think they would have attempted to discard any evidence like the rope and paint brush.
494 posted on 08/19/2006 11:37:21 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: stlnative
You don't leave a ransom note AND A DEAD BODY BEHIND. One or the other.

He could have taken the body but never planned on it to start with. His intention was ALWAYS to kill the "love of their life". Being a girl, it was especially directed at the father and the note confirms it.

Karr was on foot and likely not far away when he heard the sirens. THEN he left the immediate area. VICTORY!!

495 posted on 08/19/2006 11:39:03 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: txrangerette

The note also indicates that his obsession was not solely JonBenet, but carried over to her family. He was obsessed with JonBenet's world.


496 posted on 08/19/2006 11:40:36 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: L.N. Smithee

>>>He used to be quite handsome. He seems to have lost alot of weight in the past few years being on the lamb.
You mean "on the lam"...but with this sicko, you could be right about that too!>>>

DOH!! That's what you get when you write quickly without thought.


497 posted on 08/19/2006 11:43:57 AM PDT by sandbar
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To: stlnative
I think that's part of the problem with the investigation. They kept looking at this note as one of two things. It was either a ransom note, or a cover up. It may have been neither. The killer is looking for a clever way to involve the parents. He wants to make himself seem smart, and important, because they are. He wants to be in their league, in a way he's looking for their respect. Weirdo! He can't write a note that says, "Hey guys, I just killed your daughter because I'm a sexual pervert. I'm basically a failure at all things, but I really admire you and want you to respect me. I loved your daughter by the way."
He is ashamed of himself! He knows what he does is disgusting, but he craves admiration.

Interesting to note the embellishments in Karr's resume that have similar psychological implications.
498 posted on 08/19/2006 11:48:20 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: Sacajaweau

there isn't alot of third person DNA at this scene - Henry Lee has reported that over and over - some saliva on the underwear (a sneeze he guesses), some skin cells under her nails. and I believe the underwear DNA was found years later.

you say the note was not written at the scene? so he had to have been in there before to get the paper. and I also thought there was evidence of some "practice notes" found at the scene, which would imply it was written there. was the note paper folded, was it creased? there is no way he could have carried the note in with him, and not have had to have folded it to put it in his pocket.


499 posted on 08/19/2006 11:51:34 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: All

Very interesting comments today...I wish I could participate but my 4yo grandson is here and I could only sneak a peak..


500 posted on 08/19/2006 11:52:41 AM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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