Posted on 08/17/2006 1:37:39 PM PDT by Mikey_1962
Far fewer Vietnam veterans suffered from post-traumatic stress as a result of their wartime service than previously thought, researchers are reporting, in a finding that could have lasting consequences for the understanding of combat stress, as well as for the estimates of the mental health fallout from the Iraq war.
snip
The nightmares, flashbacks, and hair-trigger irritability that characterize post-traumatic reactions usually fade with time, the study found, but in 9.1 percent of the veterans — roughly a quarter million — the symptoms became chronic and disabling.
Politicians have clashed over the Department of Veterans Affairs’ budget, including its $3 billion annual bill for mental health, in part because of a suspicion that the estimated rates of post-traumatic stress, based on Vietnam veterans, were too high. Last year, the department commissioned a review of combat stress disability claims for evidence of exaggeration or fraud. snip
“It’s true we found a significant reduction in the lifetime prevalence of these disorders,” he said, “but on the other hand we also found that more than 9 percent had current pathology, which is a substantial number of people.”
Richard McNally, a psychologist at Harvard who is skeptical of the earlier estimate, agreed, saying that the new study confirmed his and others’ suspicions. “It knocks the 30 percent number out of the box,” he said.
But, he added, the findings “should not be used as a justification for short-changing services that are needed to help veterans” of Iraq or Vietnam.
snip
But military historians soon began to question the numbers: In previous wars, combat stress had peaked on the battlefield or just after troops returned, not years later. And the 30 percent estimate seemed high, they argued, given that 15 percent of Americans deployed to Vietnam served in combat roles
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
The anti-American left-wing media told many, many lies about Vietnam veterans. They were killers, drug addicts, had no jobs, were homeless, were thieves and drunks. If one looks at the real world there were far less Vietnam Veterans doing those things that were the non Vietnam Veterans. Especially the Democrats and the SDS who were terrorist and bombed government buildings and took over college campuses. As always the main stream press are terrorist supporters, liars, thieves, dope addicts, killers and child molesters.
I did drug and alcohol counseling when I got out and was in college, most of the stories I heard were BS, mostly REMF's, these people had problems when they went in and were looking for a Gov T*t to suck on when they got out.
I ask some very hard questions when someone tells me that Viet Nam f**ked me up.
Not surprising since PTSD is pure bullshit. See "Stolen Valor."
My Dad had flashbacks but he didn't use that to collect from the government. He was well adjusted in spite of it. It sure scared the heck out my younger brother though when they went shooting and Dad had an episode.
Post traumatic stress is real. However, not all claims are real.
If you did D&A work, then you would know that you can't trust what someone says who is still using or early in recovery. It is still the drugs and alchohol talking. It takes about 2 years of sobriety to get drugs and alchohol off the primary illness chart. Someone who has PTSD will actually get worse symptoms when they stop drinking and using.
I am glad for your friends who went to Nam and came back ok. A lot of us didn't. I would not be so quick to judge the rest.
In case you did not know, us REMF's were 40% of the casualties in Vietnam. Charlie did not seem to make the distinction you are making.
I have run into roughly 2 wannabe's in my time in dealing with the VA over the past 5 years. One was just plain crazy and the other had a drug problem (morphine).
Also, you might want to look at the more current clinical evidence about PTSD. Once it becomes cronic, it is a neurological disorder, parts of the brain actually atrophy due to the adrenal overload. Kind of like being an alcoholic. There is no going back. Treatment, yes, turning back the clock, no.
Way, way, long ago I saw an article regarding the pumped up numbers on homeless vets. Lets face it, poverty pimps, social worker types, shrinks, etc, have a vested interest in inventing problems that only can be solved with their help. The worst of these is the newest....the "grief counselor" industry. Some HS kid dies and they move in at I am sure at least 50 bucks an hour from the school district. Death is unavoidable (no one gets out of here alive) and most people, probably 99.9 percent, handle it okay. They grieve, they deal with it, they move on. There are vets with problems, I have no doubt of that. I wonder how many of the homeless vets advocates use for their skewed statistics are actually vets and not just wannabees using vet status for a freemail and sympathy. I am a paraplegic and a vet. But neither of these facts is connected. My paraplegia is the result of an accident that happened a decade after my service time. But since I am 54 and in a wheelchair ALOT of morons assume I must be a Nam Vet, especially if I venture into a bar.... nope, just a bad driver. But if I wanted to be a a**hole I could probably drink free alot. There is nothing I hate worse than fakes and/or the people that use them to push their own agenda. And if you read all of this....thanks for allowing me to vent this way.
Sorry, I should have checked the spelling......Should be "free meal" not "freemail" LOL
Possibly one of the greatest understatements of all time. LOL
Congrats!
As a Veitnam vet, I learned a long time ago not to trust any study. Things are what they are. For a long time every study considered all Vietnam vets crazy. Now, they want to say that they are not as bad as believed. Each vet gets along just like all non vets. The best he or she can.
I may seem a bit harsh, but I have taken a very hard view of PTSD since I did my two Tours, 1965-1967, 1967-1968. PTSD seems to me an excuse for failure, my stepbrother is pulling that scam.
Marines? My ex was there from 1968-70. God knows he came back a real mess. (I'll spare the details.) At least I'll say this for him...he never took a dime of government money, not even for losing the hearing in one ear and suffering permanent numbness in one hand.
A lot of people had a lot of dragons to unload and were not given the time to do it, remember the times all your HS buddies, Draft Dodgers, Thought you were an ahole, it is hard because guys look for male approval from their pals, as women do from theirs.
Those were difficult times, the culture of the States differed from the culture of those coming back and the expectations were different. (I spent four months in the hospital and after destroying numerous bars had calmed somewhat.)
It seems to me that those who served 1968-1972 had a harder row to hoe than those of us that served earlier.
Thank you for your service, and God bless you.
Sounds like you had a touch of that nasty dragon PTSD as well! Glad you got through it OK!
Welcome Home!
I also was involved in counseling returning Heroes from that hell hole back in the mid seventies. Your right, I encountered quite a few of phonys, and heard enough John Wayne stories to choke a bear... Yes, I read Stolen Honor years after I was involved in the counseling effort, and it was a revealing read...
I totally disagreee that PTSD is nothing but a scam. It is a real, and, devastating disease.
I have attended the funerals of some of my Infantry buddies I served with that either drank and drugged themselves to death, or, ended their lives not being able to handle the dragon...
The hell of battle touches everyone differently. Some adjust with no effort. Some shake off the dreams,sweats, with a little help. Some carry the shock for decades...
It is real. It kills. It's as dangerous as a Russian .51 machine gun to a small percentage of those who've seen the elephant.
I don't know if you've seen combat up close, I have.
Go tell a man who survived killing, being wounded, shell shocked, that his fears are false. That he is a failure to his manhood for not Bucking Up under the pressure...especially in battles such as Hamburger Hill, FSB Ripchord, and the many other battles that will haunt men till the day peace is found at the end of the road...
Not me, I just got drawn into some arguments that only violence would solve, Massachusetts 1968, a different place a different time.
My argument is that the incident of PTSD was far lower than reported I could have written "Stolen Honor" after a couple of years. I do think that I my Father and Uncles, Grandfather and Great Uncles could survive unscathed for the most part, why not us?
Mind you, I have no tolerance for the wannabes. All people who are still in their 'cups' are looking for an excuse as to why they are drinking so much. As a primary illness, there is no reason for drinking so much other than you are addicted. That is the barrier you have to punch through.
Burkett is know for several things: 1.His ability to out wannabes; 2. His inability to comprehend PTSD.
I am running into those of us who 20 and 30 years after the fact, are finding out that PTSD is an explanation. It is never an excuse. I stopped drinking over 20 years ago and my PTSD symptoms got worse.
A private psychiatrist diagnosed me with PTSD the first time 15 years ago (during GWI). Yes, I have worked since I was 17, been married to the same woman for over 20 years. Since RVN, I had not slept all night. I had serious bouts with clinical depression, panic attacks, arrythmia, etc. Never held a job more than 2 years. And this was after I had stopped drinking.
After 9/11, I did a header again, went down for the count. It was only after going to the VA did they convince me that it really was PTSD. I refused meds for the first 2 years. Finally, the clinican convinced me that all the talking therapy in the world was not going to stop my physical symptoms. I gradually started taking the meds.
My triggers are still my triggers. My body reacts physically to them. I can't stop that. However, the meds slow the reaction time down such that I can manage them better and they are less intrusive.
Everyone exposed to extreme trauma has a reaction to it. PTSD is a normal reaction to abnormal events. The key is to be able to process what went on before it becomes chronic. Taking someone out of a combat area and dumping them into civilian life does not work, especially when you are met with hostility and indifference.
The other guys I have met in treatment have a similar story. Exposed to combat, sent right back to civilian life, hostile return home. The pattern is pretty obvious by now.
PTSD, like alcoholism, is progressive. The symptoms and resulting behaviors get worse over time. The incidence of PTSD should drop over time as people adjust back to civilian life. Those of us who have long past the time to adjust without permanent effects, are in some ways, damaged goods. Chronic PTSD is not cureable, but it is treatable.
Getting a service connection for PTSD from the VA is not simple or easy. In my experience, there are more folks who could get it, than do. Many folks filing with PTSD do not survive the process. The VA is uneven in practice, but quite exacting in their criteria. Their folks are pretty well versed in spotting the frauds. There is no incentive for them to award a service connection.
On the advice of friends I went through the process. I came out the end being assessed at 70% for PTSD, 10% for Tinnitus, 0% for hearing loss. Seeing that 70% impaired in black and white, was certainly not a life enhancing message.
I recall when I was first assessed by the VA Medical Center 5 years ago. They were astounded at the breadth and intensity of symptoms I had experienced over the years and that I was not drinking, not using street drugs (or any meds), and was actually working a job. I refused to succumb to the symptoms, but I was not living. I was just surviving.
Only now, can I say that I am actually living. I have experienced periods of contentment. I am certainly not living the life of someone who is joyous, happy and free, but at least I am not miserable.
No, I am not a clinician. I am a well informed patient.
Oh, welcome home and thank you for your service.
That's what I meant to say. Under Clinton the Govt. reported that half of all returning Vietnam vets were suffering from PTSD and were "ticking timebombs." This was such clear bullshit that we vets laughed. It was one more attempt by the Libs to slander us vets while "showing" that our "evil war had ruined a generation of veterans." My unit flew recon in Vietnam over unfriendly people who tried to kill us. Not low stress work. I served with 600 people in two tours. Out of that number we had less than a dozen people develop mental problems as a result of our duty.
One Freeper has mailed me a hate letter for asserting that PTSD has been blown out of all proportion by the Liberal medical Industry and the boomer cowards who ran to Canada rather than serve. Our fellow Freeper claims that anyone who flew in the Navy is not a real veteran but is instead a "girly man who was probably raped by his father or uncle and liked it." I'll let that comment stand for itself. But it does demonstrate the emotion around the whole issue.
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