but uses US-type M-109 SP artillery.
Posted on 08/15/2006 12:59:18 PM PDT by BunnySlippers
One of the major military surprises of the fighting in Lebanon has been the apparent vulnerability of Israeli armour to Hezbollah anti-tank rockets.
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The AT-13 Metis or Saxhorn is a modern tube-launched successor to the Sagger.
Its tandem-shaped warhead can punch through armour of up to 46cm (18 inches) thick.
The tandem warhead is designed to counter reactive armour as used on many Israeli vehicles.
Reactive armour is essentially made up of explosive pads or bricks on the outside of the tank which explode outwards when hit by an incoming missile.
This disrupts the effect of the missile warhead, which needs to impact upon the surface of the tank to achieve its penetrative effect.
A twin or tandem charge is designed to get around this.
The first warhead triggers the reactive armour and the second penetrates the tank.
Hezbollah is also reported to have used the RPG-29; a shoulder-fired weapon, again with a tandem charge.
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The Kornet has been exported by the Russians to only a few countries, including Syria.
And all the evidence suggests that the Syrians have passed them on to Hezbollah.
Israel is so concerned that it has despatched a team of officials to Moscow to show the Russians the evidence of what they say can only be Syrian weapons transfers.
(snip)
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
No. I thought there was evidence from Iraq that some M1's were taken out by Kornets.
Yes, I belive this was the incident covered in the article.
ANd not to mention tha the IDF weren't permitted to use their original battle plan. Do major amphibious landings north of the Hezbollah positions and cut them off from reinfocement and resupply from norther Lebanon and Syria. Then send in the main ground invasion to meet up with the IDF forces landed in the north. Hammer and Anvil approach and not what Hezbollah was planning the IDF would do.
This clintonesque idea that you can acheive victory via precision aerial bombardment is nonsense. All it does is give CNN propaganda to say Israel is deliberately killing civilians because they are using precision guided bombs - therefore civilians must have been the target since that's what was hit.
Yes, yes, yes...yes...yes, yes.. and yes.
Hit the link on post 7. I would tank an M1A2 any day over a Merkava. Whoever told you that Israeli tanks are the safest in the world didn't include the Abrams, or even the British Challenger2.
The sooner Israeli armor is destroyed the sooner Damascus and Terhan evaporate.
Yes, and the answer to the problem lies in a change of tactics as well as upgrading armour.
But, as ever, part of the answer will be tactical - changes to the way tanks are employed and the way they operate in concert with other elements of ground-power, like infantry and artillery.
All weapons have limits and Israel must recognize (as must the US) that technology must be balanced by a wise use of the advantages that we have.
It's also interesting how the BBC tries so obviously to spin this into making it sound like this is a "weakness" that keeps the Israelis from being effective against Hezbollah.
Hezbollah took higher casualties in most every battle. They were able to kill rather small numbers of IDF members through guerrilla tactics and then fleeing and using civilians for cover, however Israel won every engagement and even though Hezbollah had the home field advantage, the advantage of using civilians for cover and the advantage of booby trapping many areas beforehand their effectiveness against the IDF was minimal.
The Israeli government hampered the IDF by allowing them to only use relatively small ground forces, and overly restricting where they could go.
Under those horribly unbalanced rules of engagement which gave immense artificial advantages to Hezbollah, the IDF still could not be stopped or contained, and won every battle.
It doesn't matter how successful the IDF is, or how ineffective Hezbollah is. The BBC and similar groups will always spin things to indicate that the IDF is ineffective and comitting atrocities, and Hezbollah is achieving their goals and that Israel is somehow to blame for whatever harm befalls anyone in the conflict.
The BBC should pay more attention to one of the spoken rules of modern warfare. When a force must fight to defend themselves, the level of civilian casualties that are considered acceptable is mostly dependent on how much risk the rules of engagement create for those fighting under them.
If Hezbollah shows itself to be a viable threat to the IDF because of RPGs, Israel will be forced to re-evaluate it's rules of engagement, and do more to clear areas before moving into them.
When Israeli tanks have little to fear, Israel can much more easily afford to root out Hezbollah on the ground.
If Hezbollah is effective at taking out those tanks, Israel must then do much more to reduce or remove that threat before moving in.
It is the civilians that are going to suffer.
So maybe the BBC should quit telling the Israelis that they can't afford to continue to be so cautious in their targeting, because that is what they are telling them.
Hezbollah hasnt created sh*t...it is Russian and Chinese technology.
Do you think that the tank casualties played any part in giving in to a ceasefire that was IMO premature?
Actually, the Hog is going to be flying for a long time yet. See Old Warthogs to get new life. They'll be flying untill 2028.
In Iraq our armour improvised shields that would absorb the first charge, making the second break against the armour.
If Israel deploys the Trophy APS, Hezbollah will be neutralized, and it will be another 6-Day shamefest for the Arabs.
So it would seem that those who advised Olmert NOT to rush into Lebanon with heavy armor, as Israel had done so well in the past, saved a lot of IDF lives and equipment. Hezbollah and Iran claim a victory never-the-less, but they gotta be disappointed.
Awesome! Number #36, right?
Good thing that the Jewish supporters of Israel here are so hep on Russia. That ought to serve to give Russia a bye.
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