30 Tanks Wiped Out in Lebanon

ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS ^ | Aug 11, '06 | not attributed

[APRPEH]

(IsraelNN.com) IDF officials admit that the biggest surprise of the ongoing war against Hizbullah is the ease by which terrorists have destroyed IDF tanks.

At least 30 tanks have been totally destroyed or seriously damaged in bomb and anti-tank rocket attacks involving state-of-the-art Russian anti-tank rockets.

About one-half of the military personnel killed in southern Lebanon were inside tanks.

[Eurotwit]

Thanks for the answer.

The international weapons market is a dirty business.

I believe the US has sold M1A1 to Egypt, and M1A2's to Kuwait and Saudi.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that within a few years we will see Abram tanks facing off against Merkavas.

*shakes head*

[IVAXMAN]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/reuters037.htm

Iran Begins Batch Production of Russian Anti-Tank Missile

9M113 Konkurs ATGM

"Iran has begun to batch produce Russian-developed antitank missile 9M113 Konkurs (NATO designation: AT-5 Spandrel) on a mass scale.

This inexpensive missile can be launched autonomously or from mobile and portable anti-tank missile systems mounted on many types of vehicles, a military-industry official told Itar-Tass on Wednesday.

The missile Konkurs has been devised at the Tula-based instrument-making design bureau and has a range of fire from 75 meters to 4 kilometers in the daytime and up to 2.5 km at night. The missile warhead pierces armor up to 800 mm thick.

The Konkurs missile has a semi-automatic control system with the transmission of commands via the wire communication line.

A license for the production of the missile Konkurs was sold to Iran way back in the middle of the 1990s but it is only now that Iranian specialists have completed all work to try out the missile production technology and set up a quantity production line, the official emphasized.

The military-industry official declined to give the cost of the deal for the sale of the license for the production of the missile to Iran but pointed out that the missile "was sold through the Rosvooruzhenie company for very little money, since a military-technical cooperation system in Russia was only in the making in those years".

(source: Reuters, 01-20-00)

 

[Rutles4Ever]

This screams of "saving face". Pulling back now will be an utter catastrophe. The morale boost for Syria and Iran will be stratospheric if they realize they can neutralize Israel with stinkin' HEZBOLLAH. It will give them ample time to position their little chess pieces and strangle Israel while completing their nuclear program.

I think a coup within the military is not out of the question, and Olmert's government could be tossed out, too.

[Tallguy]

A damaged tank can often be recovered & repaired. The IDF will put many of these hulls back into action eventually.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

Is Hezbollah using wire guided Sagger missiles against IDF tanks?

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Proving Rumsfeld was right.

My first reaction, too.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

For every rocket, give them a half mile of rubble.

[JustDoItAlways]

This is actually extremely serious.

We used to say that only the Abrams, the British Challenger and the Merkava were impervious to attack except for really large IEDs and direct fire artillery rounds.

We used to say that the Abrams, the Challenger and the Merkava could drive down any street in the Middle East and not have much to fear.

Well that major advantage is now gone. The terrorists have access to the very best anti-tank missiles. Won't be the same from now on (until we have even better armor on our tanks, which make take a really long time.)

[AdAstraPerArdua]

'We should give the Israelies some M-1A2s.'

No, the brits should sell them some Challenger 2's - the best armoured tank in NATO. The M1A2 uses the original British Chobham armour which is very good, but the Challenger 2 uses 2nd generation chobham which is even better. If someones shooting at you, you want to be in a Challenger!

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/challenger2.htm

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

[AdAstraPerArdua]

[GarySpFc]

The 9M113 Konkurs is a nasty anti-tank weapon, and really concerns the US. Unlike in America, the Russian government does not have tight controls on arms deals. Add to that a very corrupt customs, and the problem should be obvious to all.

[Virginia Gentleman]

My guess is that there is nothing wrong with the tanks but with how they are used. Despite their armor, tanks are not meant to be used in close quarters against infantry. They are best used as stand off weapons in combined arms teams with infantry and artillery. They need their own infantry to protect them from that of the enemy. This is particularly true because of their limited visibility. I would refer you to how Rommel used such combined arms teams in North Africa compared to the British use of tank only attacks. Because of their wish to avoid casualties I would suspect that the Israelis are not accompanying their tanks with adequate infantry.

[af_vet_rr]

weren't there similar stories coming out of Iraq?

While we've had dozens and dozens of tanks knocked out in Iraq (although I believe most were able to be repaired in the states), there's a big difference between what's happening in Lebanon and what's happening in Iraq (although one or two of our M1s were nailed with some kind of high-tech top-secret Russian weapon - maybe the same as being used in Lebanon).

As good as the M1 is, when you load a car with explosives, you can easily put an M1 out of action, just from the sheer force - you don't have to penetrate its armor - knocking out the treads/rollers, or flipping one on its side is enough.

Of course, the Abrams was never designed for street fighting - the plains of Germany or the deserts of the Middle East are much more accomodating to tank warfare.

[massadvj]

The morale boost for Syria and Iran will be stratospheric if they realize they can neutralize Israel with stinkin' HEZBOLLAH.

Don't forget they are also slowly neutralizing the US in Iraq, as that country moves inexorably toward a civil war in which Syria gets the Sunni section and Iran the Shiite section. After that, the Saudis and Kuwaitis fall, and then the rest of the ME.

It will make Barbary look like kid's stuff. Sadr and Nasrallah may emerge as the greatest pirates in history.

[Slings and Arrows]

The information in this article dumbfounds me. Keep in mind that it's attributed to unnamed "Israeli officials." While there were no doubt losses, if the Hizzies are knocking out so many tanks, why haven't there been pictures of burning tanks all over the Net?

[TomasUSMC]

I believe the loses are due to the decision to halt the offensive which puts the Tanks into immobile defensive positions. Some Israeli military have been complaining of this stoppage.

Another reason is that Israel is fighting KGC warfare (Kinder Gentler Compassionate). They may not be hitting homes for fear of injuring civilians. And the enemy then will of course use those buildings.

ANyway, once the Israelis get to the Litani river they will go defensive, so they had better come up with a plan..... and of course this plan won't work because it doesn't deal with the source of the problem. IRAN

Israel would be better off going to full mobilization and destroying Tehran and Damascus, otherwise this will not end.

[FreedomPoster]

>>Is Hezbollah using wire guided Sagger missiles against IDF tanks?

Yes, and against infantry, from some things I've read.

[IVAXMAN]

Yes, Defensive weapons, hide behind buildings and such, take out a tank and hide again for another day. With correct offensive tactics can be overcome but expect some losses. This may set Isreal on a path to develop a class of heavy tanks more designed to take on close quarter fighting....we'll see.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

Good tactics can always overcome superior technology. I don't know who said it, but it is true.

[oldbrowser]

No one hands over anything. Everything is purchased. Iran is doing the purchasing, using money we westerners spend on $3 gasoline. In their minds they are using our own decadence to kill us. And it appears to be working.

When their oil runs out, they will have wasted all of their wealth on blowing things up and will have left a desert wasteland to their children.

In the meantime, the westerners are offsetting the cost of the oil by producing weapons for the Iranians to buy.