Israel's vaunted tanks are succumbing to Hezbollah's powerful missiles

AP ^ | Aug. 4, 2006 | Benjamin Harvey

[robert jones]

JERUSALEM – Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps the guerrilla group's deadliest weapon in Lebanon fighting, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.

Experts say this is further evidence that Israel is facing a well-equipped army in this war, not a ragtag militia.

Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed on Friday.

In the last two days alone, these missiles have killed seven soldiers and damaged three Israeli-made Merkava tanks – mountains of steel that are vaunted as symbols of Israel's military might, the army said. Israeli media say most of the 44 soldiers killed in four weeks of fighting were hit by anti-tank missiles.

[JasonC]

No it was Egyptians with Sagger ATGMs. The Israelis at first used older 1967 tactics and lost several hundred tanks - not 4 or 10. They realized what was happening and improved combined arms coordination and the loss rate plummeted. In laymans terms, they called in artillery fire before the tanks came into range, to keep the shooter's heads down etc.

Every weapon has a counter, all of them working together have no counter.

[don'tbedenied]

"More "Israel is losing" propaganda - especially the headline. If Israel were losing there would be no calls for cease fire from the UN."

Spot on. Do these reporters even think about the tripe they are writing? Three damaged tanks and 7 dead tankers? Fighting from entrenched positions with modern anti-tank weapons and that's all they can do? Are the Israelis supposed to take no casualties and kill no civilians or the idiots at the AP will declare the Hezzies victorious?
The US lost around 750 armored vehicles at Kasserine Pass. That's "lost" as in destroyed or captured, not "damaged" as in bring it back and repair it.

[VOA]

European-made Milan missiles

IIRC, that's the item that the Croatians used successfully to keep
tanks at bay during the Yugoslavia break-up.

[Dave Elias]

"AP, 1066: "Normans' vaunted knights are succumbing to Saxons' powerful crossbows""

Crossbows? - Try Housecarls with effin' great battle-axes. Saxons didn't have much in the way of bowmen at Hastings.

[dennisw]

I agree with you that the Hizb'Allah use of anti tank weapons is dismaying but not insurmountable. Israelis are obviously taking serious counter measures to reduce Hizb'Allah chances of successfully deploying these anti tank weapons. Plus Hizb'Allah has a range of anti tank weapons. Not all can kill Merkaba tanks. And the Hizb'Allah supplies are not unlimited.

Thats why the awful Muslim world cries out for a ceasefire. They call it a hudna (truce) where they use the period of calm to restock weaponry from Iran and Syria

[tcostell]

[kindred]

[The ABCNBCMSNBCCNNCBS credibility is going into the toilet.
The three most leftist rags in the nation are losing subscribers and laying off staff.
Leftist "icons" and "newsreaders" are dropping like flies.]

So true. So many who don't see the truth and it helps when others present facts to them in their everyday encounters. The truth hurts fascists, they like cattle and fools who are blind and ignorant to the world and the evil ways of so many who destroy others with words. The news giants had almost cornered the info market with leftist propaganda, the internet became a place where the truth could still be presented and the propaganda leftist rags are hurting and crying the blues.

[olderwiser]

A bias is a belief held either without the support of facts, or in direct contravention of the facts.

It's not biased to support Israel in it's fight against Hezbollah. So your statement "everyone has a bias" doesn't apply to those expressing support for Israel's fight on this thread.

And comments pointing out the ways this AP story is biased? Completely appropriate, and one more way that FreeRepublic, along with other web news/commentary websites are changing what the MSM gets away with.

So sorry, the "we all have biases" put forward to stop crticism of the MSM? LOL

[grey_whiskers]

I fondly remember reading a scifi book series called BOLOS, makes me wonder if actually the future of tank warfare will be a self aware thinking tank.

The one I remember is this:

Apparently there are / were other novels, I haven't read them yet :-(

...although I still prefer Retief of the CDT.

Cheers!

[gaspar]

As Bill Mauldin put it, "A moving foxhole attracts the eye."

[leadpenny]

It's not biased to support Israel in it's fight against Hezbollah.

Of course that's biased, but that's neither bad nor good. That wasn't my point though. My gripe is screaming bias when there is nothing to back it up. ie., "AP feels" or "Reuters seems too happy to report . . ."

I welcome biases (differences), it's food for the mind.

[calex59]

olderwiser said: It's not biased to support Israel in it's fight against Hezbollah.

leadpenny said:Of course that's biased, but that's neither bad nor good.

Sorry lead, but bias implies being for or against something despite facts or evidence to the contrary. To be for Israel's fight against hezbollah doesn't fly in the face of facts, being for hezbullsh** does. One is bias(being for hezbollah and lying about their accomplishments) and the other(being for the agrieved party and telling the truth about the situation)isn't bias.

You obviously have an agenda and that agenda is biased toward the MSM, as for not being able to do anything about the MSM we are doing plenty and will keep on doing it. As for re-writing the story that is one of the dumbest request I have heard on FR since I've been a member. The bias(the untruthful accounting of events and exagerating the events in order to make it seem the terrorists are winning)is obvious to anyone willing to read the story.

As for complaining about the bias of MSM the alternative is to except all their lies as truth. I choose to complain about the lies and work towards the collapse of a biased MSM and the rise of news media that tells the truth, whether painful or not.

[SLB]

I think robots and UAVs are the future of warfare

Nope! It is still going to be boots on the ground at the end. The US military has the most advanced SA (situational awareness) capability on earth and it is still resorting to good old foot soldiers to take and hold the ground.

[epow]

The fighting wont stop by killing Hezballah , but by taking the war to whomsoever is the supplier of the weapons.

There you go.

Everybody on planet earth knows that Iran is supplying Hezballah with weapons and equipment, but since no western nation wants get the mullahs so upset that they might cut off the oil nothing is being done to stop them.

If the west thinks the mullahs are hard to deal with now, just wait until they get their nukes and ICBMs ready to go. The ME situation today looks to me a lot like a replay of the 1930s in Europe when none of the Europeans were willing to use force to put down Hitler and Mussolini while they could still have been stopped without going through a major world war. Whoever said that the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history was absolutely right.

[leadpenny]

You obviously have an agenda and that agenda is biased toward the MSM

Speaking of dumb. First, there is no universal difinition for "the MSM," and second, I have no agenda for anything except the truth. I find the truth just like you do - by reading and listenting to what I want to and putting it through my bias filter. It would be a boring world for me if all I did was listen to or read those who I agree with.

[ReignOfError]

"AP, 1066: "Normans' vaunted knights are succumbing to Saxons' powerful crossbows""

Crossbows? - Try Housecarls with effin' great battle-axes. Saxons didn't have much in the way of bowmen at Hastings.

Yeah, I just pulled two armies out of my backside. The point was that for as long as folks have been improving armor, other folks have found ways to punch through it.

[epow]

A few tanks were lost.

I read somewhere recently that Israel has 3500 operational tanks. They may not all be first line Merkavas, the article didn't say what kind they are. The same article said that Israel has modified their F-16s to have more operating range and carry a heavier bomb load than our own versions.

[jonrick46]

Let us not forget that the money financing these Hesbollah weapons is coming from petro dollars. Some kind of naval blockade of Iran would be the ultimate step. This time no "oil for food" and UN under the table deals.

[R. Scott]

Yep.