Time will stop for you soon enough! The only thing that has demonstrated the "skills" to manipulate your "science", can best be described as God. Your mileage may vary.
Scince requires evidence, not just theory. Why should you even have this debate?
Posted on 08/04/2006 4:26:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
The question of what happened before the Big Bang long has frustrated cosmologists, both amateur and professional.
Though Einstein's theory of general relativity does an excellent job of describing the universe almost back to its beginning, near the Big Bang matter becomes so dense that relativity breaks down, says Penn State physicist Abhay Ashtekar. "Beyond that point, we need to apply quantum tools that were not available to Einstein."
Now Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski and Parmpreet Singh, have done just that. Using a theory called loop quantum gravity, they have developed a mathematical model that skates right up to the Big Bang -- and steps through it. On the other side, Ashtekar says, exists another universe with space-time geometry similar to our own, except that instead of expanding, it is shrinking. "In place of a classical Big Bang, there is in fact a quantum Bounce," he says.
Loop quantum gravity, one of the leading approaches to the unification of general relativity with quantum physics, was pioneered at the Institute of Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State, which Ashtekar directs. The theory posits that space-time geometry itself has a discrete "atomic" structure, Ashtekar explains. Instead of the familiar space-time continuum, the fabric of space is made up of one-dimensional quantum threads. Near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn, and these quantum properties cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.
While the idea of another universe existing prior to the Big Bang has been proposed before, he adds, this is the first mathematical description that systematically establishes its existence and deduces its space-time geometry.
"Our initial work assumes a homogenous model of our universe," Ashtekar acknowledges. "However, it has given us confidence in the underlying ideas of loop quantum gravity. We will continue to refine the model to better portray the universe as we know it and to better understand the features of quantum gravity."
***
Abhay Ashtekar is holder of the Eberly family chair in physics and director of the Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry in the Eberly College of Science. He can be reached at ava1@psu.edu.
The finding reported above was published in Physical Review Letters in May 2006. The research was sponsored by the National Science Foundation, Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, and the Penn State Eberly College of Science.
The singularity didn't exist in anything, because "existence" implies time and time itself was created along with space during the Big Bang (and of course there was no space for it to exist "in" either).
The atheist's universe is best explained as "The Seinfeld Theory".
You have nothing. You take nothing and make something.
How was it made?
From nothing. It just happened.
What did it do?
Nothing. It just happened.
Well, what does it do now?
Nothing. It just happens. When it happens, then you have something.
But, we have to have something?
We do. We have nothing. That nothing is something.
That makes sense, doesn't it? (extreme sarcasm here)
Let's see, we have a great big ball of matter. No laws of physics, as we know them now, apply to this ball of matter.
Some unknown, undefined, unmeasurable, unreproducable, unexplainable event happened.
That event gave us all the laws of physics as we know them now, because we know that the giant ball of matter COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED AND/OR COME INTO IT'S CURRENT STATE UNDER THE CURRENT LAWS OF PHYSICS.
We have spent centuries, using the most intelligent people on earth, perfecting our sciences so that we can precisely measure, quantify, and understand these laws, yet there is no rational explanation for how we got them.
And the atheists call US zealots?
And more time is coming into existence as well. Indeed, it is the expansion of time-space that moves time along. Stop the expansion of time-space and time would stop.
Simple math:
(Something)+(-Something)=Zero.
If you start with nothing and you have the inherent capability to create Something and the negative of Something (i.e. -Something) then you can indeed create Something from Nothing. Of course to prove that this actually happened you need to go out and find that -Something. We've seen bits and pieces (of anti-matter) but not, as far as I know, a full up universe full of the stuff.
Time will stop for you soon enough! The only thing that has demonstrated the "skills" to manipulate your "science", can best be described as God. Your mileage may vary.
Scince requires evidence, not just theory. Why should you even have this debate?
Then what was that "noise" Penzias and Wilson heard in 1964?
Faith :)
Buckaroo Bansai, I believe.
Well put!
general background noise. BB is posited on our universe being controlled by gravity. It pretty much ignores the stronger forces including magnetism and electricity. Those forces play a much greater role in shaping the universe than General Relativity claims. Magnetism and electricity generate radio waves. Our whole universe is filled with transmitters that have radiated radio waves forever: background noise.
QM calls into question whether the big bang ever banged..
But really a big bang is pretty convient.. It could be merely a house of mirrors ugh.. branes/frames.. No bang at all just brane overlap.. You know just strings wandering across branes as in a dream.. from one reality to another.. But the big bang does have a certain 4th of July excitement to it.. like a universal holiday..
Space without matter is an oxymoron.
I've never been able to figure out how something got created out of nothing. And I've never been able to figure out how "God" began. It is beyond my understanding as we naturally believe in a beginning of everything. So one is left with religion which I find wanting. Too much for my pea brain to assimilate.
Allowing inflation, where huge expansion was initiated before the velocity of light was established.
The usual (atheistic) defence against the Anthropic Principle is to take refuge in the tired Star-Trek trope of there being quadrillions of parallel Universes, one of which is ours.
It's not atheistic, it's common sense because it may very well be true. Outside creator, and multiverse are BOTH explainations that fit our observations of this universe. Either could be true and there is nothing to indicate one is more certain than the other. So you can't write off one as "tired" and "unscientific" without doing so to the other.
Just imagine the uncounted millions required to hold the earth's axis on a proper toggling tilt. Whoa, boys, too far! Ooops, back again! Wait, where's the pole! Zut!
Do they count the years A.D., B.C., C.E. ???? This is absolute time when you need it!
The cosmic microwave background is not noise. It happens at a specific frequency and is detectable above the background noise caused by the effects you list. Gravity is the dominant force on cosmological scales. Electromagnetism is very weak on that scale and has virtually effect on the masses (i.e. stars, planets, comets, galaxies, dust clouds). An understanding of basic physics would let you know this.
Since the definition of time is the measurement of intervals between events in a continuum, therefore before the Big Bang, before there were any events, there were no intervals between events, therefore, there was no time. Only God existed (exists). Therefore, God exists outside of time. (Except when God the Son entered into time to become a human being.)
We had some fabulous discussions, as we looked at the myriads of stars and celestial wonders. Shooting stars were echoed by the waters.
As the Destroyer slid silently through the water, the roiling caused an effervescent glow alongside our vessel. It was bright enough to illuminate the various snakes and creatures that inhabited the depths.
All in all, we decided it was a little over our heads!
In the end, it is simply faith that will get you through to eternity. Some people think theirs' lays in a grave...
I have no idea what you are talking about. The universe is mostly empty space. You don't need matter to have space. Heck, even an atom is mostly empty space.
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