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To: RipSawyer

"Without entering into the question of Gods, what makes a physicist or cosmologist believe that he is capable of determining whether an alternate universe could support life?"

And you think they are not qualified? I think you should read what they say. The ones I have read are very well informed about other fields of science. Nor do I know of any biologists or other scientists who can contradict them, or even try. Remember, we are not talking about conditions which are merely different in the way submarine hot springs are, or the surface of Mars is. We are talking about conceptual universes in which no matter is possible at all, or in which the Big Bang would already have reversed and collapsed, without leaving enough time for life to form.


188 posted on 08/01/2006 7:03:42 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: hellbender

talking about conceptual universes

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am simply a little confused. If we are going to conceptualize whole universes can we not conceptualize an entirely different basis for life?


194 posted on 08/01/2006 7:15:20 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Does anybody still believe this is a free country?)
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To: hellbender

By the way, I am convinced that trying to prove or disprove the existence of God by reason is and always will be a futile effort.


197 posted on 08/01/2006 7:20:11 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Does anybody still believe this is a free country?)
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To: hellbender; RipSawyer
["Without entering into the question of Gods, what makes a physicist or cosmologist believe that he is capable of determining whether an alternate universe could support life?"]

And you think they are not qualified?

No one is. Nobody today has the knowledge necessary to determine that. They don't even understand all the properties of *this* universe that result from the "basic variables" (whatever *those* are, and no one knows *that* either) that go into making a universe, much less what *other* kinds of universes would or would not result from changes in those variables, nor what physical processes would be possible in those universes which do not exist in ours, nor what those unknown physical processes might or might not contribute to the capability of something to exist in those alternate universes that might be worthy of the name "life". Anyone who believes that this is knowable at this point in time is immensely foolhardy.

I think you should read what they say.

I have. It's arrogant nonsense, based on vastly incomplete information about what "alternate universe generation" producing "alternate universes" with "alternate physics" and "alternate life" might be possible.

The ones I have read are very well informed about other fields of science.

...none of which prepares them for the wild-ass speculations they make.

Nor do I know of any biologists or other scientists who can contradict them, or even try.

Then you haven't looked real carefully, this kind of nonsense gets frequently refuted.

Remember, we are not talking about conditions which are merely different in the way submarine hot springs are, or the surface of Mars is. We are talking about conceptual universes in which no matter is possible at all,

And how exactly do they determine what kind of matter is or is not possible in a "conceptual universe", when they don't even understand the workings of *our* universe well enough to have been able to predict, based on nothing but the values of the physical constants, whether life would have been possible in this one?

A "conceptual universe" is just someone using their imagination. And the conclusions they draw about it will be as accurate as those based on any complete fantasy.

or in which the Big Bang would already have reversed and collapsed, without leaving enough time for life to form.

...or in which other forces would result, totally unknown to us in this universe, which would have obviated that "problem".

219 posted on 08/01/2006 8:36:18 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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