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To: SJackson
What ever happens in Lebanon, both side will claim victory, but neither side will really win.

Israel is locked into a generational war of attrition, neither side has the means to win decisively.

There is only one place where this war is to be decided and that is Iraq.

If we can build a stable democratic relatively peaceful Iraq, then we will send a real message to the other two rogue states Syria and Iran.

At the moment they see us bogged down in Iraq, and if we cannot create a stable Iraq we are less inclined to go for a direct regime change in Syria and Iran, but if we do declare a victory there it will have the following benefits.

1) It is possible to directly enact regime change .

2)It will free up resources for the next stage.

And with the experience we have garnered we will not make as many of the same mistakes.

I would target Iran next, Syria will fall without Iran, and without Iran and Syria, the Palestinians Hezzballa and other terrorist organistions will have to come to the conclusion that the armed struggle is not going to last and they will have to find peaceful means with dealing with Israel

4 posted on 07/31/2006 5:14:07 AM PDT by tonycavanagh
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To: tonycavanagh

You said: "If we can build a stable democratic relatively peaceful Iraq, "

Maybe we can build a stairway to the moon also.

We are dealing with Muslims here, not rational people.


17 posted on 07/31/2006 5:30:49 AM PDT by DaiHuy (I have never seen a situation so dismal that a policeman couldn't make it worse)
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To: tonycavanagh
Israel is locked into a generational war of attrition, neither side has the means to win decisively

Israel has the means to win decisively, more to the point is do they have the will to make it happen. The so-called world opinion is also something Israel considers when dealing with this. Look at the outcry over a few dead future terrorists and the progenitors of future terrorists.

18 posted on 07/31/2006 5:32:52 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather?)
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To: tonycavanagh

What would happen in Iraq if we turned Tehran into a smoking ruin? With conventional weapons. Or if we succeeded in a strike taking out Irans political leadership?


33 posted on 07/31/2006 6:07:38 AM PDT by 7thson (I've got a seat at the big conference table! I'm gonna paint my logo on it!)
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To: tonycavanagh
they will have to find peaceful means with dealing with Israel

I believe that is impossible and will not happen unless Islam itself changes radically.
63 posted on 07/31/2006 7:22:34 AM PDT by visualops (visualops.com)
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To: tonycavanagh
More accurately described as a battle than a war. In that context, but in my view one Israel can win by degrading Hizbollah to the extent they’re no longer a threat, and preventing their return. It’s unlikely Israel can do the latter with Syria fomenting terror in the region, but who knows, maybe the Lebanese government will step up. Lebanon needs “regime change” as well, armed militias need to be purged from their government.

Israel can’t do anything about Iran, or much about Syria, those jobs are left for the west. I think a free Lebanon would be a victory, but you’re right that Iraq is the regional key at this point. Syria will do what they need to survive, if that means getting out of the terror business, they’ll likely do it. Iran has greater ambitions.

65 posted on 07/31/2006 7:26:59 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: tonycavanagh
If we create a stable democractic regime in Iraq (oops, right, we already have) people will blow up bombs to claim it isn't theirs. If we stop that domestically, then Iranians will send their own bombs. After you build your paradise in Baghdad, some Iranian engineer will send it skyward in a radiactive cloud.

You can't win by leaving sanctuaries and pulling punches.

Israel has all the means in the world to win this war. It has an army of over a million men, with 5000 tanks. Nothing in the region can remotely stop them. (If Egypt and Saudi Arabia both declared war, it would be debatable. otherwise, not). What Israel doesn't have is the will to win this war. It wants to be liked by western liberals and the media and its own left. And since those are also implacable, the only want to be liked by them is to lose.

As for targeting Iran "next", um, who is targeting it? Nobody is targeting it. Bush has zero political capital and can't start another. No one in the Republican party is seriously proposing war with Iran. A few pundits are, but they have no responsibilities. Nor is it very likely the Republicans will be left in charge of any of it, much longer.

Iran is simply winning. On the political front, which is the decisive one.

In a war, it is necessary to face facts.

75 posted on 07/31/2006 8:29:18 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: tonycavanagh

Israel is locked into a generational war of attrition,



Western civilization, not just Israel


145 posted on 08/04/2006 6:11:19 PM PDT by midnightson (Mama-the ultimate prognosticator- said there'd be days like this.)
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