Posted on 07/30/2006 12:56:25 AM PDT by vimto
JULIA and Richard do not look like fugitives but they could be jailed under new Indian laws to stop missionaries converting low-caste Hindus to Christianity without a magistrate’s approval. A well educated British couple with young children, they left London two years ago to teach missionary work in some of India’s poorest states, such as Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Orissa.
Last week Madhya Pradesh became the latest state to pass an anti-religious conversion bill that could leave Christian missionaries open to criminal charges. Leaders of India’s 26m Christians say the bill is an attempt to intimidate and persecute them, while increasing votes for the Hindu nationalist BJP party. Under its provisions missionaries and their converts face up to three years in jail if they do not notify a magistrate of their intentions.
Christian leaders also fear the initiative will encourage attacks against them. India’s National Commission for Minorities has voiced concern about incidents in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan in which orphanages and schools have been targeted.
Last month police in Madhya Pradesh raided a Bible study group and arrested worshippers after complaints that they were converting Hindus. Nuns have been raped and several priests have been murdered in the past seven years. Last year 11 members of a Hindu mob that burnt an Australian missionary and his two young sons to death as they slept had their convictions overturned.
Hindu fundamentalists claim missionaries, mostly American and South Korean, prey on the ignorance of lower castes and persuade them to turn against their culture. The missionaries say they provide education and healthcare and teach the Bible to untouchables whose own religion treats them as outcasts.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
The difference is MOST Muslims DO SUPPORT terrorists. Muslims get out on the streets in hundreds of thousands and demonstrate their support for these acts. They cheer when the towers came down. They cheer when Isrealis get killed. Their religion DEMANDS the killing of non-Muslims. There are not Americans Christians who know what is going on in northern India and if they did they would denounce it and find it sickening. Anyone who can equate this, well I am not even going to say what I think.
"The difference is MOST Muslims DO SUPPORT terrorists."
I dont see the difference most people here, including you, are defending the very same missionaries who are involved in terrorist activities.
That is about the fifth time you have thrown out that lie. I do not defend those terrorists. What I object to is your lying about who they are. They are not foreigner missionaries. You are using propaganda and lies to advance your cause against Christians speaking about their faith in your country. There should be strict laws and crack down against terrorist groups. But using the rapes and killing and forced conversions of these internal groups to justify banning 'all conversion activities' just demonstrates your hatred towards Christianity. Shoot, any positive statement about Christianity could be considered a 'conversion activity'.
OK, the sixth time you have stated that lie.
"thus Europe 1st."
Far from it. India has among the world's most pristine Christian community at a time when Christians themselves were being persecuted in Judea. The community still exists in Kerala and are called the "Lesser Eastern Churches". Although they are not recognised as Christians by their Roman Catholics or Protestants counterparts. The Roman Church sees them as a sect of Hinduism and hence they too need to be (re)converted. Fact is they are the oldest of the Christians.
The European Roman Church is a much more recent thing as recent as their history.
" They are not foreigner missionaries."
You didnt answer my question. How do you know they are not foreign missionaries?
YOU are the one lying and most definitely (but vainly) trying to defend the terrorists accomplices.
You are onto us. Chrisians are just a bunch of terrorists who will rape and kill people if they don't convert. Us evil Christian Americans have been secretly funding these activities and even participating when given a chance. Who would pass up a chance to rape and kill a bunch of Hindu villagers. Sending money over there to provide medicine, food, water, and clothing is just a cover. What we really want to do is have Christians overthrow the country and take it from the godless Hindus. Yep, you better pass laws that forbids Christianity, we all are just evil......
So a lot of it is word of mouth, which I hope is true, as people need to be saved, which you seem to reject.
I don't even understand the concept of being "saved". To my pagan ears it sounds like someone trying to peddle snake oil.
Be it Hindu, Budda, Islam, or whatever, there is always someone who wants you to be converted. It is not just in religion but in politics, work, and life. So tell me, when you are at work, do you not conform to the rules and regulations? If you do, then you have been converted to their style of work.
Definitely not. Its only a contract where we come to an agreement with the organisation (that we work for) over a common set of goals/objectives that meet the expectation of the employee and also that of the employer. Together (me and the company) work towards achieving the common objectives that meets my requirements and the company meets its own. My association with the organisation remains only so long as the organisation meets my objective. I don't convert anybody and nobody converts me. I am still an individual in my own right. I still retain my own personal view-point as regarding anything at all.
Are you a republican, democrat, libertarian or whatever political party you chose, guess what, you have been converted to their political views.
Conversion is change and any time you change you convert.
If conversion is merely change then how do you say that Hindus are converts. Most Hindus are Hindus by birth and haven't changed their religious view-point since birth.
Yes, I want people to convert. I want to see them come to know the Lord. Some will, many won't, but I will keep on trying just like Thomas and what you are saying now is trying to convert me to a life style of not converting people. Kind of ironic, don't you think?
Conversion of the Christian kind is not simply "change". Its change for the worse. It means to give up on ones individuality and rational thinking and freedom of choice. It means to comply with the religious diktats of an higher organisation (which in this case is a Church). If the Church say that the idols you are worshiping is that of a demon then you have to comply and do away with the idols. If the Church say that Jesus is the only God then they are not allowed it question it or believe otherwise. Hinduism is far different and it is a religion of individuals. Hindus can have their own religious view point, worship Jesus or any other God if they want, or remain an atheist and yet they will still be a Hindu. I believe it is the only true religion in the world. Other religions are only partly true and mere shadows of Hinduism.
If guilt were gold, the misguided missionaries would be masters of brass.
If you are the 'crusty curmudgeon' you claim to be I ain't gonna win this one.
There are not a bunch of outsiders dying to go to northern India to fight in a local dispute. Most of NLFT members come from the Jamatiya tribe. These are not foreign missionaries, although I would not put it past them to be scamming outside groups for money.
There are not a bunch of outsiders dying to go to northern India to fight in a local dispute.
So you assume that there are not many outsiders wanting to go to NE and so .........there are no foreigners at all there? WOW! I have never read a more lame twist of logic on FR till date! If there are no foreigners as you say there then why do you care if foreigners are being banned there unless your agenda is to protect the terrorist and their associates?
Most of NLFT members come from the Jamatiya tribe. These are not foreign missionaries, although I would not put it past them to be scamming outside groups for money.
Unlike you I have actually been to Assam, Tripura, Siliguri and Shilong. I know a hell lot better then you whats going on there. I have lived in Agartala longer than you have spent time inside a toilet.
IPCS, News Report by Sanjib Deb, The Asian Age 26 February 2001
The banned National Liberation Front of Tripura has admitted to a split in it's leadership and is making desperate attempts to shed the pro-Christian tag with which it has been associated. Stressing their commitment to secularism, the NLFT central executive committee said political secretary D. Joshua alias Jogendra Debbarma, who had recently deserted the organisation, had helped percolate the pro-Christian ideology to the lowest level of the outfit.
In a statement signed by publicity and information secretary M.R. Tuijang, the NLFT denied allegations by former leader Nayanbasi Jamatya that the outfit had been working involved in the plan to forcibly convert all tribals to Christianity. The statement said Joshua left the party as the NLFT central executive committee refused to accept his pro-Christian stand. The outfit has also denied any role in the abduction of the four RSS leaders from north Tripura district on August 6, 1999, though earlier Nayambasi had, after leaving, admitted that the four RSS pracharaks had been executed by order of the NLFT leaders.
Now the Group claims to be Secular. Maybe you should ban Secularism too.
Oh f-ing puh_leeez. Because your ban doesn't mean a thing to these terrorist. What you are banning is Christian organization bringing food, clothing, medical supplies and trying to spread the word. This terrorist group is already OUTLAWED, making a ban on conversion will not these terrorists. Besides, as if these thugs are now going to say, oh it is against the law we better stop. These are murders. Your ban would be targeted at Christians trying to help. You can't really be that stupid.
When on Indian soil the foreigners will just have to abide by the laws regardless of whether they like it or not. If that means NO CONVERSION, then it means NO CONVERSION. There is no arguing with the laws of the land. Laws are never made with the consent of the foreigners. If they are on Indian soil they just have to abide by it and not act like a bunch of punks who think they have a free licence to do whatever they like.
"What you are banning is Christian organization bringing food, clothing, medical supplies and trying to spread the word."
And secondly we dont need your charity. You cant force the "food, clothing, medical supplies" down our throats.
Cuz we have seen enough of your kind of charity.
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