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Judge rules against Bucs (NFL); League defends Pat Downs
CBS Sportsline ^ | 7-28-2006 | AP

Posted on 07/29/2006 11:27:38 AM PDT by SideoutFred

TAMPA, Fla. -- Security "pat-downs" of fans at Tampa Bay Buccaneers games are unconstitutional and unreasonable, a federal judge ruled Friday, throwing into question the practice at NFL games nationwide.

U.S. District Judge James D. Whittemore issued an order siding with a season-ticket holder who had sued to stop the fan searches that began last season after the NFL implemented enhanced security measures.

High school civics teacher Gordon Johnson sued the Tampa Sports Authority, which operates the stadium, to stop officials from conducting the "suspicionless" searches. A state judge agreed with Johnston that the searches are likely unconstitutional and halted them.

The case was later moved to federal court, where the sports authority sought to have that order thrown out. Whittemore refused Friday, writing that the pat-downs "constitute unreasonable searches under the Florida Constitution and the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution."

Further, Whittemore said the Tampa Sports Authority failed to establish that the risks outweigh the need to protect the public from unreasonable searches.

Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU of Florida, which sued on Johnston's behalf, said Whittemore's decision could turn out to be significant.

"It's obviously not going to govern what's happening around the country, but it's certainly going to be an influential precedent," Simon said. "Other courts may look at it."

Simon said he thinks the decision shows that courts are "pushing back" at governmental attempts to violate citizens' civil rights on the basis of a perceived threat of terrorism or crime.

Rick Zabak, an attorney for Tampa Sports Authority, said the decision will be appealed.

(Excerpt) Read more at sportsline.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bay; football; nfl; privacy; search; tampa; terror; wot
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To: beltfed308

No actually, completely un-war related. That was during the era when Guns n Roses were having 1 riot per tour and venue managers were getting paranoid, it only happened at heavy metal concerts nobody was worried about the easy listening crowd. It's not feel good security, it's NFL paranoia, they know terrorists like lots of blood, they know they have around 75,000 innocent victims in attendance at most events, they know somebody already tried to blow up a college football game, they don't want a day that will be remembered for all the wrong reasons named after one of their teams.

It's not about whether or not I feel safwe it's about you lying about what this is about, it's about the idiots that say security is a bad thing, it's about the morons that draw parallels between reasonable and intelligent security and Eastern Bloc totalitarianism. All your parallels are FALSE parallels.


41 posted on 07/29/2006 8:12:41 PM PDT by discostu (you must be joking son, where did you get those shoes)
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To: Petronski

pat downs...like patting you down to check for weapons, etc.

Why I capitalized it I have no clue.


42 posted on 07/29/2006 8:17:30 PM PDT by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: beltfed308
The athletes and team owners lose in this case. The federal government wins.

That cannot be good.

43 posted on 07/30/2006 5:28:51 AM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: samantha
This particular schmuck works in a building with metal detectors and armed guards who can and will check everything of interest to them.

Federal judges generally face no greater risk than the rest of us when it comes to terrorism, of course, so all that expensive machinery and beef at the entrance is useless and should be removed.

44 posted on 07/30/2006 5:32:38 AM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: RFC_Gal
These stadiums usually have a "rental/use" agreement that, in effect, makes them "private property" during the period scheduled for the event.

What that means is the judge in this case interfered with the rights of a private party, to wit, the team, to peaceably have and hold its property. I see a 5th amendment "taking" case here that could end up having the federal government pay the team for it's constructively "lost rent" for each and every game conducted under this judge's order.

No doubt the judge had this in mind as is personal donation to Tampa ~

45 posted on 07/30/2006 5:36:46 AM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: discostu

This sort of thing is ordinarily part of the lease. The team (the lessor) had their rights violated with this ruling.


46 posted on 07/30/2006 5:39:58 AM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: beltfed308
Another thing should have stuck with you ~ the lady bathroom attendants in the men's rooms in West Germany.

Ever wonder why they were there?

47 posted on 07/30/2006 5:41:31 AM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: muawiyah

I'm with you, certain levels of property rights come with a lease, including basic rights of security. And you or I can legally search everyone that enters our premises, it would be rude and probably iritate our friends, but no one's rights would be violated.


48 posted on 07/30/2006 9:55:53 AM PDT by discostu (you must be joking son, where did you get those shoes)
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To: discostu
Definitely.

I'm surprised we have so many on this thread who would use the federal courts to deprive private parties of their right to defend themselves.

Should we report them as trolls or what?

49 posted on 07/30/2006 12:51:11 PM PDT by muawiyah (-/sarcasm)
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To: SideoutFred

Excellent. Now it will be easier for me to smuggle flasks into Jets games with me early in the season.


50 posted on 07/31/2006 10:08:59 AM PDT by jmc813 (.)(.)
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To: SideoutFred
"Is the search really causing your rights to be taken away? I hear this argument and I have to tell you, I just don't feel any rights being taken away at all. I have nothing to hide, they can search me all day in the name of safety for a game with 80,000 people."

Oh boy! The more government types are going to love you!

Heaven forbid we actually expel ALL practicing muslims from this country based on the following and leave the lawful US Citizen alone:

We need to define what can be classified and protected as a valid religion. I suggest a few simple litmus tests that any group seeking 1st amendment protection must pass. If your belief fails any of the litmus tests below you belong to a hate group and must be expelled from the country.

#1: If your belief commands you to kill or enslave those who are not of your religion then you fail the litmus test. .

#2: If your belief commands you to kill anyone who leaves your organization then you fail the litmus test.

#3: If your belief demands you kill or enslave anyone who writes, draws, speaks negatively about your belief you fail the litmus test.

51 posted on 07/31/2006 10:31:25 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (The difference between democrats and terrorists is the terrorists don't claim to support the troops)
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To: beltfed308
"You might like being searched but I think this is a good ruling. Just remember that the more we lose in basic freedoms the more the terrorists win."

Yes it is terrible, to lose one's freedoms, of course the way the law works one does not have permission to enter a property unless the property owner (or the one who leases the property) gives permission.

In the case of Bucs stadium the Bucs( who lease the stadium off of the local government) decided for the safety of their customers to institute searches, which by law are perfectly legal. (You don't want searched buy the Bucs don't go to their games) Now the Buc's owner's rights of property have been violated, by a judge who does not have a freaking clue.

52 posted on 07/31/2006 10:49:01 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: SideoutFred

How about Dick Trickle?


53 posted on 07/31/2006 11:55:31 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: RFC_Gal
The stadium appears to be own and ran by the government so different rules apply. Why not sell the stadium to a group of private investors?

*** DING DING DING *** No more calls; we have a winner!

If the NFL wants to do things their way, they can do it on their own property -- and get their sticky fingers out of the taxpayers' wallets.

54 posted on 08/01/2006 11:28:16 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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To: Sonny M
I doubt you will find any terrorist, or terrorist sympathizer or supporter, who claims he wants or would want, the government of his opposition to "crack down" on its people.

Nonsense. One of the classic objectives of terrorism is to provoke knee-jerk reactions that erode confidence in the targeted government.

55 posted on 08/01/2006 11:33:58 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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To: Sonny M
I am simply saying, that terrorists do not care about those rights or what the government does to its own citizens, it neither pleases not angers them.

Then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

For example, I'm sure that Iraqi terrorist are high-fiving each other over measures like driving restrictions in Baghdad -- it pisses people off and erodes popular trust in the established government, thus making the terrorists' job that much easier.

56 posted on 08/01/2006 11:36:39 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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To: beltfed308

I just disagree in giving up freedom for thinly veiled "security".


You are not forced to give up anything. There is nothing forcing you to go to the game. If you are so afraid they will find something on you just do not go to the game.


57 posted on 08/01/2006 11:39:49 AM PDT by John D
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To: John D
If you are so afraid they will find something on you just do not go to the game.

Well said komrade!

58 posted on 08/01/2006 11:48:21 AM PDT by beltfed308 (Nanny Statists are Ameba's.)
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To: steve-b
For example, I'm sure that Iraqi terrorist are high-fiving each other over measures like driving restrictions in Baghdad -- it pisses people off and erodes popular trust in the established government, thus making the terrorists' job that much easier.

I would be laughing if it wasn't so sad that you belive such propaganda.

Especially terrorists "high fiving" each other, like one goes to the other "Hey, Mohammad, we caused a traffic jam, whooo hoooo, now we are getting somewhere".

No terrorist group, ever cares about the civil liberties of who is oppressed, they think of themselves and their targets...and how to kill them....not backing up an expressway during rush hour for check points.

59 posted on 08/01/2006 1:03:34 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: steve-b
One of the classic objectives of terrorism is to provoke knee-jerk reactions that erode confidence in the targeted government.

Yes, because the real goal of Al Quada wasn't to kill 3,000 people on 9/11, it was to make it annoying to go through airline security.

You actually think OBL tells his co-horts, "A few more bombings and death, and we can achieve our true goal.....making the infidels inconvenienced and unable to sneak budweiser into sporting events".

Give me a break, Death and destruction are the means to get to a policy goal..and that goal does not include me not being able to bring a ham sandwhich into a football game.

60 posted on 08/01/2006 1:06:37 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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