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To: agrace
"31 thus saith the L-rd GOD: The mitre shall be removed, and the crown taken off; this shall be no more the same: that which is low shall be exalted, and that which is high abased. 32 A ruin, a ruin, a ruin, will I make it; this also shall be no more, until he come whose right it is, and I will give it him."

The Hebrew word overturn is
`avvah
av-vaw'
intensive from '`avah' (5753) abbreviated; overthrow:--X overturn.

Which comes from the 5753
`avah
aw-vaw'
a primitive root; to crook, literally or figuratively (as follows):--do amiss, bow down, make crooked, commit iniquity, pervert, (do) perverse(-ly), trouble, X turn, do wickedly, do wrong.

So three times there would be a changing of shall we say the holder of that 'mitre and crown' before the One whose right it is to have returns for it.
121 posted on 07/25/2006 8:02:23 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

My strongs says the following (similar, but mine includes "ruin" as a definition -

05754 `avvah {av-vaw'}

intensive from 05753 abbreviated; TWOT - 1577b; n f

AV - overturn 3; 3

1) distortion, ruin

- then -

05753 `avah {aw-vaw'}

a primitive root; TWOT - 1577; v

AV - iniquity 4, perverse 2, perversely 2, perverted 2, amiss 1, turn 1,
crooked 1, bowed down 1, troubled 1, wickedly 1, wrong 1; 17

1) to bend, twist, distort
1a) (Niphal) to be bent, be bowed down, be twisted, be perverted
1b) (Piel) to twist, distort
1c) (Hiphil) to do perversely
2) to commit iniquity, do wrong, pervert
2a) (Qal) to do wrong, commit iniquity
2b) (Hiphil) to commit iniquity

I just don't see how it's not (forgive the pun) distortion of the text to suggest that the word overturn here means a "changing of the holder" as you put it. Rather, 5753 sounds like a ruin to me.


123 posted on 07/25/2006 8:19:47 PM PDT by agrace
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To: Just mythoughts; agrace; Thinkin' Gal

May I?

Is "it" possibly that the stone has allegedly been over turned twice-from England to Scotland, and back again? or thrice-from it's origin to England to Scotland and back again?

and/or,

are the two daughters England and America?

The first bishop of the Church of England in the United States (The Episcopal Church) would not swear allegiance to the King and as a result he was consecrated in Scotland.

What has happened and is happening in and to the mitre and crown with the Episcopal Church, the Church of England, parts of the worldwide Anglican Communion fits both your definitions of the word overturn.

"31 thus saith the L-rd GOD: The mitre shall be removed, and the crown taken off; this shall be no more the same: that which is low shall be exalted, and that which is high abased. 32 A ruin, a ruin, a ruin, will I make it; this also shall be no more, until he come whose right it is, and I will give it him."


177 posted on 07/26/2006 6:18:34 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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