It is ironic, really. Turkey may be flying the flying turkey. Guess they are desparate to please Brussels and gain entry into the European Community.
Posted on 07/22/2006 9:51:47 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Turkey Requests New Bid from Eurofighter
By Ibrahim TUrkmen, London
Published: Friday, July 21, 2006
zaman.com
The Turkish Air Force requested a new bid from Eurofighter as part of efforts to strengthen its forces by replacing its planes with a new generation of jet fighters.
In response to the Turkish Ministry of Defense’s decision to increase the number of jet fighters it will purchase, Eurofighter’s producer, Aeronautica, began to prepare lower prices for the tender.
The company will also issue a response to Turkey regarding its demands for partnership, technology transfers, and industrial participation.
Authorities evaluate Turkey’s new demand about technology transfers from Eurofighter, which is the competitor of American Boeing and Lockheed Martin, two companies that are opposed to any technology transfers, as an important development.
If both parties reach an agreement, Turkey will become one of the production bases of Eurofighter jet planes and a full partner of Aeronautica along with Italy, England, Spain and Germany.
Aeronautica CEO Giovanni Bertolone emphasized if the agreement is signed, Turkey will have access to all the source codes of Eurofighter. Turkey will also have the ability to make changes in design and in production phases of the plane in accordance with its needs, just as other partners using “System Design Responsibility.”
Bertolone spoke with Turkish journalists during the Farnborough International Airshow in England’s capital London, and emphasized Eurofighter is not just an industrial project.
Bertolone defined the cooperation as having three aspects: Political, military and industrial.
“We see Turkey as the most appropriate candidate country for cooperation in all three of these aspects, and will make our offer accordingly,” Bertolone said.
This statement means that Turkey will not only have the chance to transfer technology with the world’s best selling multi-purpose new generation jet fighters, but will also be able to fly its own planes independently and without restrictions.
Bertolone further said Turkey far exceeds the countries in its region considering its Air Force power and rapidly developing economy, and should only be compared to countries like England and Italy.
The Aeronautica CEO said the United States will use F-35s, also known as Joint Strike Fighters (JSF), combined with the dominant F-22 in its air force to provide maximum air to air and air to land efficiency.
Consequently, Bertolone advised Turkey to use two platforms, JSF and Eurofighter, simultaneously.
The JFS’s constitute an important place in the Turkish Ministry of Defense’s modernization project for the Turkish Air Force.
Authorities estimate that if Turkey orders JSF’s as early as today, the planes will not be delivered until 2014; however, the Eurofighters will be fully operational in three years time.
Constantino Panvini Rosati , head of Eurofighter's Turkey Campaign, said Turkey should evaluate both platforms, from air to air and from air to land, in the frame of empowering its air forces.
Europe Outdates US with Typhoon
The double-engine Eurofighter Typhoon is designed to be able to take off and land on shorter runways, in addition to their high maneuverability capacity. Authorities asset that the European aviation industry has surpassed the American aviation industry for the first time with the “aveonics” system on Eurofighter.
Turkey needs 120 Eurofighters to fully control its air space.
Would be a great deal for us Europeans.
Maybe less of a good deal when the fighters and transferred technology are used against europe.
Anyone notice that the current turkish government is formed out of the remnants of two banned islamist parties? That the Turkish populace today is virulently anti-american (see that movie with gary busey?) Remember what happened after Pakistan got the nuke, and promptly gave the technology willy nilly away to islamist countries and north korea?
Despite all that,Turkey still remains very much a US ally-having a stake in the JSF,buying new AEW/C aircraft & upgrading it's F-16s.The only significant difference has been the considerable cooling of it's ties with Israel.
Such a great ally that they crippled our Iraq invasion by not letting us use our bases there? That set Iraq effort back years and resulted in far more American/innocent deaths. Oh yeah they only told us we couldn't use them at the last moment, causing maximum damage to our planning and effort.
Please spend lots of money in our country on military bases, but you cannot use them when you really actually need them most.
When are we going to wake up
It is ironic, really. Turkey may be flying the flying turkey. Guess they are desparate to please Brussels and gain entry into the European Community.
I am very nervous about the transfer of cutting edge MILITARY technology to a country that is not considered to be a reliable ally, especially with an Islamist party running it. If Turkey is not trustworthy enough for the EU to vote it in, why even think about selling them such jet fighters?
Also, Turkey's nonparticipation in iraq crippling the United States' invasion could be a bit of hyperbole.
Are you a Greek who is virulently antiTurkish because of your two countries' mutual history?
I'm not greek.
"The double-engine Eurofighter Typhoon is designed to be able to take off and land on shorter runways, in addition to their high maneuverability capacity"
Nope. Guess they never seen the VTOL version or the carrier variant. The F-35 has stealth the EF doesnt. The F-35 has a much longer range than the EF as well. The F-35 has much more advanced sensors and radar as well.Now the EF may turn faster than the F-35 but the F-22 defeats it in everthing. The US should not sell F-35's to any muslim nation period. If europe wants to give away its soiurce codes fine. The US doesnt want to.
soiurce=source
F-35 is not even in production yet - it's a paper plane.
"Ive read that among NATO countries,Turkey supposedly spends the highest percentage of it's GNP on defense-not sure how valid that claim is."
That's true, but the other thing is that their GNP is not very impressive and their army is large.
Umm no all three variants have been tested under x-35,and the first production one that goes to the US flys this fall.They already have the production lines open for the F-35 and the F-22.
F-35 is not about air superiority - it's going to be a strike fighter. So EF is made to fulfill other demands.
F 35 will (if it is build that way) no supercruiser. It's got less payload aswell. Single engine planes have to be written of frequently even without having an enemy encounter.
The planned upgrades for the EF radar (AESA finally after 20 years) will give it a slight edge on the F-35.
F-35 will have a smaller radar cross-section - but this will only be a small advantage since it's by far not that small as an F-22. A soviet type S 400 mobile sam radar will lock on both planes maybe on the F-22 aswell in time to hit them - if no UCAV or jamming supported anti radar raid or ground action took them out before.
Still a reduced radar cross section - or stealth as it is put in trivial science magazines - is cool as long as you don't have external pay-load or are going super sonic in wich cases both planes will be visible to modern soviet and chinese fighter radar from distances exceeding the range of amramskis.
Since the EF is faster without afterburners it may have some advantages over the F-35 to sneek in places although it's somewhat better detectable - it depends on the mission profile.
Anyhow one needs to minimze the time the enemy has to react on an attacking plane - you can do so by getting seen on only shorter distance and / or beeing faster without beeing seen better.
F-22 with it's best in the world super cruise speed and lowest radar cross sections is mastering this equation - as long as it's not got external pay load or is on afterburners.
The EF2000 is less pricey to entertain then F-18s and F-16s also and certainly a bargain to entertain in comparison to F-22. I guess it's just a much cheaper air superiority plane then the F-22 and better than the rest on the market.
BTW F22 doesn't turn faster than EF. EF's got canards and a larger wing area to weight ratio. The F-22 needs to be stealthy and fast and long range - thus it's heavier and aerodynamicaly inferior - this is countered by thrust vectoring - but not in a degree that it would turn better then an EF - not if you set the criteria of having a concious pilot anyhow - because EF pilots are supplied a g-suit working on hydraulics rather then pneumatics they can pull much more gs over longer times.
EF2000 is the only plane around that could outturn an amramski (russian made midrange missile)
In fact it's all very complex because radar cross sections depend on the type of radar your up against, it's frequency, pulse program, signal processing software etc etc. And certainly the angle of view is a key factor.
A good fighter plane of the future IMHO is bound into a tactical network, carries a lot of ordonance, is quick without beeing on afterburner keeping it's range long at higher speeds and is easy to maintain (fast return times).
F-35 might not be the best option for everybody. In fact many nations will opt for it because they got work packages - so they can manufacture some parts in country making the deal more interesting for them - but if not the EF can be the better deal.
Other countries might opt for planes that can be carrier launched - EF cannot.
But it needs only a very short runway (STOL beeing the buzzword).
The future of Air Superiority lies in UCAVS anyhow so we will sell them EFs now and UCAVS later on.
Here are some pics of the F-35 production line. The F-22 is a better air dominance fighter but its only for the US. These F-35's will be excellent replacments for US and Allies F-16's/F-18's.
Nah the F-35 and F-22 will continue to be upgraded and is better than the EF.The EF is better than russian designs though.
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