Posted on 07/19/2006 11:14:14 AM PDT by Lunatic Fringe
WASHINGTON (AP) President Bush has issued the first veto of his presidency, rejecting a bill to expand federal research on stem cells obtained from embryos.
No sex of any kind unless it is specifically to make babies.
My opposition to this bill has nothing to do with my "personal religious point of view" any more than my opposition to murder is of a religious nature. My belief that these embryos are living human beings is grounded in science and common sense, not religion; my belief that human life has dignity and is deserving of protection is one of the founding principles of this country.
No, it was politically smart as well. To sign that piece of crap bill would have been a betrayal to his supporters and probably would have helped the democrats win control of both houses in the fall.
See 321. SO you would agree we must not kill any sperm, as well.
You make a moronic argument, and a not-so-subtle attempt of calling me a Nazi which makes you no better than idiot liberals who use the same tactic.
How about you make an argument that supports your position that a frozen clump of chemicals is "alive"?
That was an instance where the president lied about the extent of "atrocities" being committed by the leader of a little pissant country who was no threat to anybody to justify a military action to remove him, right? Where are all those mass graves and the evidence of the massive "ethinc cleansing" that was going on. Oh, and the KAL folks that we went to assist by getting rid of Milosovic? A bunch of gun-running drug dealers and terrorists. Yeah, that was a really good military move by clinton.
Someone you would call an "idiot liberal" - Nat Hentoff, who is also an athiest (so you can't denigrate his religious views as you have done to others on this thread) shows the parallels between the dehumanization language of abortion and killing embryos for stem cell research and the language used to rationalize genocide. So the comparison to Hitler's views on Slavs is quite appropriate here, despite your attempts to avoid the clear comparison by whining about being called a Nazi (which I did not do).
How about you make an argument that supports your position that a frozen clump of chemicals is "alive"?
Frozen clump of chemicals. Hey, we're all chemicals, when you get down to it. If we're just that, then it's easier to rationalize killing us.
But back to your question as to whether the embryo is alive - if it is implanted in a human womb, it will most likely develop into a human. So yes, it is alive - if it were not alive, that would not happen.
Correct. A human sperm cell has human DNA, it is alive, and if allowed to proceed in its natural function would produce a baby.
Protect the sacred life of the sperm!
A sperm is not fully and genetically human. It will not develop into a human of its own accord in the womb (except in Woody Allen movies).
Me: "If killing an adult human is immoral, killing an embryo is immoral. They are both human, in different stages of development."
muleskinner: "See 321. SO you would agree we must not kill any sperm, as well."
No. Sperm has 1/2 the human chromosones. It cannot grow into a human being itself. It is part of a human, but it is not human.
At conception the 23 chromosones of sperm join with the 23 of the egg and a human life starts.
Why do you think the stage of development affects the species? Or the morality of killing a human?
The point is, when is it a human being???
I believe the fine line between what is a human life and what is not a human life is the developmental stage where it goes from a zygote (embryo) into a fetus (an unborn human).
You can freeze an embryo for decades (probably longer), you can implant it into another human that was not the mother. You cannot do that with a fetus.
A fetus is a living person, and an embryo is not.
Ah, so now you move the goal posts. Again.
I believe the fine line between what is a human life and what is not a human life is the developmental stage where it goes from a zygote (embryo) into a fetus (an unborn human).
I believe it is a human live at conception, since it has its own unique DNA that is fully capable of growing into a fully developed organism.
You can freeze an embryo for decades (probably longer), you can implant it into another human that was not the mother. You cannot do that with a fetus.
So? It does not make the zygote any less human. We all were zygotes once.
A fetus is a living person, and an embryo is not.
And once again, you are dehumanizing a zygote in order to rationalize killing it. Which is exactly what genocidal regimes have done - dehumanized other races to rationalize killing them. That is a non-religious argument against your position - the danger of the language involved towards human life.
Thats why i voted for him pro life is pro life
GO DUBYA
"Adult stem cells are regenerative cells of the human body that can be coaxed to become a whole host of tissues, including heart tissue and neural matter.
With these adult stem cells, physicians have successfully treated autoimmune diseases such as lupus, multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s disease, and rheumatoid arthritis. They have also restored proper cardiac function to heart attack victims, and improved movement in spinal cord injury patients.
Embryonic stem cells have yet to yield one single success in the treatment of any ailment."
(snip)
"In contrast, we urge the members of the Joint Committee on Economic Development and Emerging Technologies to support adult stem cell and other research that respects human life.
People suffering from debilitating diseases are already saying no to unethical and immoral research. As they learn the truth about what is involved in embryonic research they are saying no to their doctors.
Investors realize that it will be increasingly difficult to market cures tinged with research that requires the killing of other human beings.
"Because of this," noted Parker, "the vast majority of private capital is currently invested in adult stem cell research. It has shown and continues to show much more promise than embryonic experimentation."
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OWF .. did you see the White House gathering, where the folks who adopted embryos and the Dad of one of the "snowflakes" was there in the wheelchair with a debilitating illness? He asked: "Would I kill my daughter to get cured myself?" The answer: A RESOUNDING NO!
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But then how could his daughter even BE?? According to the human traders .. once a cell .. always a cell.
I ask the ESC folks this:
If you were financially destitute and desperate, and someone offered you 5 figures for one of your children, which would give you a new start in life, would you sell them? Every embryo is someone's son or daughter.
See, Pro-Life people have to stick to this argument no matter how illogical it is.
An embryo is not a human life, but if they admit to that then the abortion debate is a non-issue for the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. Pro-lifers and the church won't have any of that, so they stick to this ridiculous notion that it is a living human being the MOMENT the sperm and egg join.
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