Can't have a thread about Lightning without a mention of Richard Bong's "Marge"!
Posted on 07/19/2006 7:10:06 AM PDT by white trash redneck
The F-35 (recently named the Lightning II) is due to enter service soon. While the F-22 is widely seen as the ultimate air-to-air machine, the F-35 is described as a multi-role aircraft. How does the F-35 compare in the air-to-air mission against likely competitors like the French Rafale, the Swedish Gripen, and the multi-national Eurofighter?
The Rafale, Gripen, and Eurofighter are all in service or expected to enter service in 2006. All of them boast some of the best electronics suites ever to appear in combat aircraft. All have top speeds approaching 2,000 kilometers an hour. All three aircraft carry excellent beyond-visual-range missiles (like the Mica, AMRAAM, and Meteor). All are highly maneuverable. But will they be better than the F-35 in a fight?
The answer, surprisingly, is probably not. The F-35 has one big advantage over these three fighters from Europe. Its radar signature is very small – as is the case with the F-117 and F-22. Given that its speed is comparable to the European jets, and its AESA radar is at least as good as the European systems, this "invisibility" is a decisive advantage. The best weapons in the world are useless if they cannot see their targets.
The F-35 will be able to see the Rafale, Gripen, and Eurofighter long before it can be seen itself. The first rule of air combat may be "speed is life", but the second rule is "lose the sight, lose the fight". In the 21st century, sight includes radar. It is very likely that the only warning the F-35 may give of its presence will be when its radar has locked on to one of the European fighters. By that point, the F-35 is already close to launching its AMRAAMs.
This is probably the major reason for the United States Air Force's future dominance of the air. Even its second-best fighter will probably be able to best the front-line designs of other western nations in a "paper" fight based on specifications and capabilities. When the level of training American pilots get is added to the mix, the F-35's advantage becomes staggering. One other factor to consider is that the United States Air Force plans to have 1,763 F-35s on inventory (the Marine Corps and Navy variants would add another 780 F-35s to the mix). If the Rafale is built to a planned force level of 292, and the Saudi order for the Eurofighter goes through, the combined Gripen, Rafale, and Eurofighter production runs will total 1,262, meaning there will be two F-35s for every one of the advanced European fighters. – Harold C. Hutchison (haroldc.hutchison@gmail.com)
Is that Richard Bong in the cockpit?
It's a fairly recent airshow picture ... Dick Bong died in an airplane crash in 1946(?).
That it was a recent picture is obvious, and Dick Bong died in a crash the day of the Hiroshima bomb in August 1945.
I was just trying to bring Bong's name into the discussion as the famous P-38 pilot, but I see someone beat me to it.
1945 test flying an early jet....
of Dick Bong and the lovely Marjorie. In a P-38, of course.
Gotta have the P-38.
This is an airplane thread; standards must be maintained.
I wonder if this would be better stated as "Rate of Change is Life", or in general..."OODA is Life".
That might be a hard sell in the figher community, saying "Speed is Life" wont turn off the chicks.
I think the F-15 holds that record now.Soon to be broken by the F-22.
No mention of the Mig 29, the latest version has vector thrusting, that allows it damn near come to a complete stop and change direction.
I saw one at an airshow and it is unbelievable, it can fly in a very small area, in comparison to normal planes.
It's not in service yet.
F15 12 miles in @ 2 half minutes, I think.
My father was watching Bong's final flight. Incredible test pilot.
nice post. my question is where are the Migs? Did Russia stop building fighters or are they so bad that they are not in the contest for #1?
When I showed up for USAF flight screening, one of the other guys, Jim Bong, asked me for directions to the BX. I pulled out a map and guided him to the BX. One of the turns was Bong Street. I told him that he should be able to remember that…he just chuckled.
Later, while looking a the “Medal of Honor” wall at Officer Training School, I saw a picture that looked just like Jim. Duh…James Ira Bong was the nephew of Richard I. Bong. I’m proud to report that Jim is a very humble guy and a great pilot.
Nephew to Honor WWII Ace Uncle
Scroll down to the 2nd to the last story.
Please be so kind as not to include the Brits in that comment, otherwise you are quite correct.
See my post. the latest Mig 29 is a very impressive plane.
The MiG-29 is a rather large aircraft for a fighter and *still* has no stealth capabilities. The look-down-shoot-down IR capability of the '29 is a bit troubling, but with the US AWACs in an area, US fighters can engage the '29 long, long before it even knows they're around - and long before they get into IR sensor range.
The article is also incorrect - the first that the enemy is going to know that F-35s are around are when the missiles they launch go active and start blowing up their target planes. The current generation of US missiles do not require the host aircraft to leave its radar on to guide them to their target.
No stealth, and they're all last-generation fighters; i.e., the latest fighters that Russia has are of the F-15/F-18C design generation. Their "advanced prototypes" are nowhere near production, IIRC, and from what we've seen of them, are optimized for manuverability and gun combat - and still do not appear to have stealth in mind.
......absolutely NOT....!!! this "bird" is the
"Lightning II," so there had to have been an (American...!) "Lightning" - and there was....! the famous P-38 Lightning of World War II fame.... the "fork-tailed devil" as the Germans referred to it...! The F-35 was NOT named after some Brit kite.....!! get real, man....!
Agreed there is no stealth on the Mig 29 and it is quite big.
But boy can it change direction, that's interesting about the new missiles, as no matter how manoevrable it is, it may not have any time.
Tks.
You can bet your butt that every ounce of titanium in that aircraft is going to be milled by Summit Aeronautics of Helena, MT. Nobody does it better or faster. They're already making parts for it.
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