Posted on 07/14/2006 3:23:40 PM PDT by elizabethr
At least the Israelis held out longer than we (in the US) did.
The problem with your logic is that the Islamic Swine want all Israelis dead or gone. Those in Israel who favor killing babies (but unfortunately not Islamic Swine babies) are not in favor of aborting all Israeli babies.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Both you and the Pope know this.
ML/NJ
I would hope every thinking person would give considerably more than a rat's ass about the truth, however.
So, since it hasn't been mentioned by others, I would point out that the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Emile Zolli, converted to Catholicism after the end of WWII, and took Eugenio as his baptismal name. Pope Pius XII's given name was Eugenio Pacelli, so there you have objective evidence that a prominent Jew in a position of authority found Pope Pius XII's actions with regard to the Jews inspirational.
Nor was Zolli's conversion merely symbolic sentimentality. He went on to write a theological reflection on Jesus Christ, entitled The Nazarean. Naturally, he had to sacrifice his position as Chief Rabbi to do this. But that was not all his conversion cost him: he died in poverty and obscurity, when he could have had a measure of prominence and financial comfort.
Pius XII exhausted his personal fortune (his family was wealthy) ransoming Jews by obtaining gold which the Nazis demanded. He also hid a number of Jewish families in the papal summer residence at Castel Gandolfo.
Not only were there many examples of Catholic heroism in resisting Naziism and protecting Jews from the Final Solution, those examples extended to the Pope himself. While Cdl. Pacelli was nuncio (ambassador) in Berlin, his predecessor, Pius XI, issued the letter Mit Brennende Sorge (With Burning Anxiety) to the Catholic parishes in Germany, warning them of the dangers of Naziism. Cdl. Pacelli is known to have contributed substantially to the contents of that letter.
Perhaps more could have been done, but it must be recalled that the Vatican City State was surrounded at the time on all sides by fascist Italy, which was allied with Nazi Germany. Musolini could have ordered an invasion at any time, and the only forces the Vatican could have resisted with were about 150 Swiss Guards. It is also true that a strong public denunciation issued by the Dutch bishops provoked a brutal retaliation by the Nazis on a number of innocent people. Therefore, a nuanced, diplomatic public stance was required to avoid even more atrocities.
The apology issued by Pope John Paul II has been spun in the anti-Catholic mainstream media (which opposes the Catholic Church for its moral stances, primarily on sexual issues), but one must read his actual statement to find the truth. (The antidote to propaganda is always to go to original, rather than secondary sources.) It is certainly true that some Catholics have in the past adopted anti-Semitic attitudes and acted on them, but that was never in conformance with Church teaching. (The Vatican II document Nostra Aetate is not a departure from past teaching, as certain people would have you believe, but a restatement and amplification of the Catholic Church's authentic tradition.) Pope John Paul was apologizing for the failures of individual Catholics to live up to the demands of our faith.
Too late.
Do you think Christians don't see Israel as the center of the world?
Not on topic.
I am Christian with many Jewish ancestors.
Who doesn't have many Jewish ancestors?
Do you support Israel or are you trying to shove away those who stand behind Israel?
I support Israel. Are you trying to shove away Israel?
I am stunned that this author would make such comments. Speechless would be a better description.
EODGUY
Either way, Israel will not be distroyed.
Joseph Lieberman is just as staunch a supporter of Israel as Giuliani is, but I wouldn't him to serve as president either.
In most respects Lieberman and Giuliani are interchangeable.
And anyway, this may spiral out of control and demand the strictest action before Giuliani ever faces a primary battle.
Index whoa bump.
"he did not expect the current events when he liberated Iraq."
I assure you he was fully aware of the various 'scenarios' which could occur. All of this was discussed, and plans made.
He has done his best to put those plans completely into place.
He has had the resistance from other nations, the libs and most of the Democratic party leaders.
It's a wonder he gets anything done.
It is a very complicated situation, with many rogue elements.
Remember this: We are prepared. We will not fail.
"the brutal truth is that abortionists in Israel operating under the full protection of the law have probably killed more Israeli Jews"
Two wrongs make a right?
Based on that kind of conclusion, we have no reason to object to terrorists bombing the United States.
I also believe that the pope's response was to criticize the killing on both sides. It was the MSM that chose to tell 'only the side of the story we want'.
Oh come on! How about the days before electricity.
I have to agree with your comments. Failure is not an option.
The Bible says in the end NO ONE will come to Israel's aid. But, He will!!
Although I disagree with the Vatican's stance on the war between Israel and Hezbollah (sp.?), the Vatican has the right to speak out. This business about the Holy See failing to speak out against the Holocaust during WWII is a canard. What was the pope supposed to do during WWII? Did he have an army that he could send against the Germans? Pius XII actually saved the lives of thousands of Jews in Italy and in Rome. (I wrote a paper on this, using primary sources, so please do not dispute this.) Remember, also, that Rome was not liberated from the Nazis until 1944 (it had, of course, been under Fascist control until 1943). Since the Vatican is inside Rome, it was literally in a very dangerous place during the war. Finally, there was no freedom of speech in Germany, Italy, Austria, etc. during the war. Priests and bishops who spoke out publicly against the Nazis were sent to concentration camps or killed. There is only so much people can do or say in that situation.
I find it ironic that the same people who blast the Church for supposedly remaining silent during the Holocaust, don't criticize the silent majority of moderate Muslims for not condemning the terrorist acts of their radical co-religionists. They don't even condemn Muslims for denying the reality of the Holocaust.
Well, right now it would be! We're working on catching up to you today. 95+ with super-high humidity. I get to attend an outdoor wedding reception today! Who plans this stuff? Have they NOT lived in Wisconsin their entire lives and don't know what mid-July weather is lke around here? (In a word; Beastly!)
Anyhow...you and I will work off of opposite schedules. You grow tomatoes and peppers in winter to feed me, and I'll do the reverse when it's my growing season. ;)
I truly believe that America needs a kick in the butt as far as self-sufficiency goes. I can't believe the survival skills and instinct & plain old common sense that's been lost in one short generation! But, nobody listens to me. ;)
Threads like this bring out the raving, frothing at the mouth anti-Catholic bigots. Hate, intolerance, issues.
The same could be said for the gangs that roamed New Orleans after Katrina or the gangs that roam Detroit on Hell Night. Yes, there are a few who band together, but I wouldn't call that "united" in the sense that all Muslims were united for a single cause. Make no mistake, I'm not making excuses for them. I agree with your premise of there being a certain percentage of the population that are thugs, just not that they are all, 100%, are going to somehow unite to bring about the destruction of Israel.
That would work. Actually, a lot of people do have small gardens here in the winter -- they harvest what the rabbits and birds don't....
This morning the CNN reporter in Gaza has been interviewing Palestenians and it's been interesting. Most say they want peace and to live peacefully side-by-side with Israel, they are not blaming Israel as much as they are blaming the terrorist groups.
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