Posted on 07/07/2006 12:59:52 PM PDT by The Lumster
While North Korea was gearing up to launch a long range missile and five rockets into the Sea of Japan this week, sending a grim message to the entire world, out at Saddleback Church Rick Warren was announcing that he will soon be bringing his message of purpose to North Korea where he reportedly will be addressing an audience of 15,000.
“God is using Rick Warren to be a messenger of peace!” gushed one Saddleback member. There is great hope in Lake Forest that Rick Warren's message in that stadium will cause Kim Jong II to drop his nuclear purposes and embrace some kinder, gentler ones.
But who exactly will be sitting in that stadium when Mr. Warren steps up to the podium? Given the level of government induced starvation in that country, the average North Korean would be lucky to have the strength to walk to the stadium to hear him in the first place.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldviewweekend.com ...
The ridiculous whining tone of this article says a lot more about the biases of its author, than it does about Mr. Warren's trip.
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You sure got that right.
I simply meant that PDL is not the best source to go deeper. That's all.
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There's some usefulness in your point, imho.
However, i still disagree with it as a general statement.
There are likely folks for whom PDL can and will take them far deeper than a lot of other volumes have taken anyone.
I think MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST is the best besides the Bible for taking folks deeper. But someetimes, I'm not quite up to it or not in the right frame of mind to be ministered to by it.
I think all of us have come back to Scripture which has been very familiar with us. And yet new circumstances, new inputs from Holy Spirit brings fresh deepening to our relationship with God.
PDL has so much Scripture in it and is structured in such a motivating way . . . it, no doubt, functions for many in the same way. Holy Spirit uses lots of books and events and even satanic news stories to deepen folks in The Lord who have an earnest desire to grow in The Lord.
That reads like another
'duck and run non-answer,' to me.
I have. For several years. And I completely reject your charactization of him.
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I'm 100% certain that you are absolutely 100% correct.
And I've just read his books; listened to some interviews and tuned in to my spirit for a sense about him from Holy Spirit communicating through my spirit. Works for me.
I don't know how successful the SO Korean super churches have been at beaming TV and radio messages into No K but I suspect God has done more there, than we have imagined.
I think the many, 10's of thousands of lasting maturing fruit Rick has helped introduce into The Kingdom of Our Lord makes the answer already quite clear.
Obviously .. you've never heard God speaking to you!
Too bad!
Oh, I can believe that Tommy has heard God speaking to him.
. . . AT LEAST by a Scripture jumping off the page in a period of anguished travail and needing a sense from The Lord about some important issue.
Whether Tommy listened or listens routinely may be another valid question.
He's certainly not interested in responding to the I CORINTHIANS 14 questions even though he was the one raising I Corinthians 14 first!!! LOL.
However, God is faithful. Holy Spirit will, sooner or later, hound Tommy fairly relentlessly and/or wait for a series of opportune times to give Tommy yet other chances to see God's truth in such matters AND SUBMIT to Him and to God's perspective on those truths instead of Tommy's entrenched perspectives.
But, all of us, who've tried earnestly to serve God for any long period of time . . . must have experienced similar jangling of our constructions on reality.
All of us see through a glass darkly.
All of us are wrong at least some.
God has to shake all of us up good more than a few times, imho.
No it doesn't.
While I am a Warren supporter, and a Billy Graham supporter, etc., I think this is a potentially serious mis-step on his part, and time will tell.
Paul said that we are to "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness (Eph 5:11) and pointed out that we "do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph 6:12)
With all this, Jesus prescribed a circumspect approach to those ready to receive the gospel when He cautioned not to "throw our pearls before swine."
Time will tell.
***10's of thousands of lasting maturing fruit***
I have another take: They have already moved onto the newest fad that circles the True Faith.
I don't know the percentages . . . but from closely watching Christianity these many decades, I'd be confident that Rick's org was head and shoulders above the national average for maturing and retaining Believers in The Body of Christ actively and authentically.
I expect that they are within the 65-85% range.
You believe, to me, a bald faced lie, from hell.
Perhaps we can get some stats from Rick or some other researcher like Barna.
BARNA?
He is nothing but a mass marketing Guru. His idea of church growth is to chase the culture.
I would also appreciate it if you stopped the ad homs and used ratioanl arguments instead of shrill comments that cast doubt on my faith. I would have thought you learned your lesson the last time you were banned.
Sorry. Not trying to cast aspersions on your character.
Just on SOME of your ideas, perspective.
I will try harder on such scores.
I'd think it would be MORE Christian to treat Rick Warren as you wish to be treated.
Actually, Barna does good research that's a great service to The Church. He helps wake a lot of pastors up to a lot of things they need awakened to--in terms of changes and shifts in demographics, Christian beliefs and practice, etc.
Surprised you didn't know that.
Or are you trying to tell me that any researcher that doesn't pass your vetting is not worth paying any attention to?
Kim Clement...have you ever heard of him?
Thanks.
Yeah. I love the way he worships God.
Not sure how I feel about his prophetic pronouncements. Maybe sometimes I have more of a witness to them than I do at other times. I don't feel he's as 100% on as he seems to think he is.
Pride seems to be a huge hazard in the field.
On what he said about Kim, I found it to be very interesting. He was very careful in what he said, so let's just sit back and see.
Yeah. I think he's markedly above average. And has had some significant hits.
Glad he has others around him.
Thanks for the dialogue.
Are you on the prophetic/dreams/visions/end times ping list? do you want on?
Blessings,
Understand that Kim is not always with these men, the other 2 have their own ministries. But the men he's with are very well balanced believers...and I'm sure pop each other in line when necessary. Can't we all use that at times?
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