Questions about the Affidavit against Pvt. Green (Iraqi Rape/Murder case)

Findlaw.com/Pissant ^ | 7/5/06 | Pissant

[pissant]

First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.

Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.

In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.

Questions:

In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".

In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.

So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.

Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.

In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?

In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.

In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.

Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.

[Pikachu_Dad]

Hey, aren't WE a civilian population too?

ROFLOL.

[Pikachu_Dad]

Well it is pretty hard to get past the two sworn statements. Granted, this is the prosecutions dime and we have not heard from the defense. The arrest warrant has some problems that need to be cleared up.

Based on those sworn statements we have five very bad people to deal with. GREEN, KP1, SOI1, SOI2, SOI3, and SOI4.

Only alternative I can think of given these two statements is SOI1, SOI2, and SOI3 being the main culprits and trying to get of the hook by framing GREEN and KP1.

SOI5 is probably also in trouble as this was his command that it went down on.

SOI3's claim that he did as he was ordered doesn't fly too well IF he knew what was going on.

[Pikachu_Dad]

One distinct possibility. But Jalabi the neighbor told the WaPost it was done at 2:00 in the afternoon. How he would know that, I don't know. That's probably just when he got involved. They did shoot of an AK47 and set a fire. All of that should allow a 'neighbor' to have a pretty good idea as to what time it all went down at. But then again, he could just be the designated psy ops officer whose job it is to boost this case using whatever means necessary. There is enough here to be upset about without any juice.

[ARW3A]

Who burned the house?

[TexKat]

U.S. Army Waits On More Arrests In Rape, Murder Charges From Iraq

In Iraq, local leaders are calling for a domestic investigation and charges against the soldiers accused. However, with Green in U.S. custody, it seems likely an American military trial will be completed before he is possibly turned over to Iraq for prosecution.

[TexKat]

Ex-GI Accused Of Raping Iraqi, Killing Family 'Has Disorder'

Alleged Rapist, Killer Could Get Death Penalty

POSTED: 6:55 am EDT July 6, 2006

Until he was charged with raping an Iraqi woman and killing her family, Steven D. Green's life seemed as unremarkable as the flip-flops and Johnny Cash shirt he wore to court: He was a high-school dropout from a broken home who joined the Army to get some direction, yet was sent home due to an "anti-social personality disorder."

Now, the 21-year-old, who appeared Monday in a federal courtroom in Charlotte, N.C., could get the death penalty if convicted in the horrific crime that has strained the U.S. military's already troubled relations with the Iraqi people and sent shock waves around the world.


The case involves the March 12 rape and murder of Abeer Qassim Hamza, and the killing of her mother, father and sister at their home in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad.


Steven Dale Green grew up in the west Texas oil town of Midland, where President George W. Bush grew up. Green's parents divorced when he was 4, and his mother remarried four years later.

His upbringing had complications. His mother pleaded no contest in 2000 to a drunken driving charge and was jailed for six months.

Midland school officials said Green attended classes from 1990 to 2002 but only made it through 10th grade, suggesting he might have been held back at least once. They would not specify.

After dropping out, Green moved about 80 miles north to Denver City, the former oil town along the New Mexico state line that is listed as his official hometown. He got his high school equivalency degree in 2003.

According to a report in the Midland Reporter-Telegram, Green was arrested for misdemeanor possession of alcohol on Jan. 31, 2005. Days later, just a few months shy of his 20th birthday, he enlisted in the Army.

He was deployed to Iraq from September 2005 to April 2006 as an infantry soldier in B Company, 1st Battalion of the 502nd Infantry Regiment, which is part of the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky.

It was there that he was sent to patrol the so-called "Triangle of Death," an area southwest of Baghdad known for its frequent roadside bombings. Military officials say more than 40 percent of the nearly 1,000 soldiers in the region have been treated for mental or emotional anxiety. Green was apparently one of them.

He was given a discharge on May 16 for what military officials in Iraq told The Associated Press was an "anti-social personality disorder." The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

A psychiatric condition, anti-social personality disorder is defined as chronic behavior that manipulates, exploits, or violates the rights of others. Someone with the disorder may break the law repeatedly, lie, get in fights and show a lack of remorse.

Military officials said the accusations of Green's involvement in the rape and killings came to light more than a month later during a session to counsel soldiers about the June 16 abductions of two fellow soldiers who were killed, and reportedly mutilated, by insurgents.

According to a federal affidavit, Green and other soldiers targeted the young woman after spotting her at a traffic checkpoint near Mahmoudiya. On the day of the March attack, the document said, Green took three members of the family -- an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old -- into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside. The girl's body was found burned; the other bodies were found in a house that had been burned, the document said.

Under Army regulations, a soldier can be discharged only if a personality disorder "is so severe that the soldier's ability to function effectively in the military environment is significantly impaired." The diagnosis must be made by a psychiatrist or doctoral-level clinical psychologist who is authorized to conduct mental health evaluations for the military.

Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the Washington-based Lexington Institute, said it is standard practice to discharge soldiers whose profiles suggest they are incapable of maintaining military discipline.

"Despite all the stories about the military having trouble recruiting, it is considered anathema to retain somebody like that," said Thompson. "It isn't Army policy to retain somebody who isn't dependable. I'm certain this person slipped through the cracks. ... The whole point of boot camp is to find people who can't hold up under stress and get them out before they get in the field."

Scott L. Silliman, a military law expert at Duke University and retired Air Force colonel, said Green's diagnosis does not make it easier for his attorneys to plead insanity.

"That may be something that a federal court, in punishing upon conviction, might consider extenuating," Silliman said. "But is it in any way a legal excuse for what he's been charged with? No."

Greg Simolke, Green's uncle, told The Washington Post that his nephew had visited relatives in North Carolina last week on his way from a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery for a member of his platoon who was killed in Iraq. He said Green seemed to have found "direction in his life." Green was charged Monday.

"He thought it was a good thing to be serving his country," Simolke said. "When he was here for this visit, he seemed like the same old Steve. I don't understand what happens in a war, so I don't know how these things happen."


Family Discounted Possible U.S. Involvement


Relatives of a young Iraqi woman who was raped and killed said they initially didn't believe Americans could be involved.

Green is already charged and at least four other U.S. soldiers are being investigated. But the dead woman's uncle said the family at first ruled out that possibility. They only started believing possible American involvement once the United States announced its investigation.

The uncle also told The Associated Press Television News that neighbors had seen U.S. troops at the home around the time of the attack. But until word got out about the investigation, they were too afraid to come forward.

He's also taking issue with FBI documents estimating the woman was about 25. He said his niece was 15.

Iraq's prime minister said he wants an independent Iraqi probe into the alleged rape and murders, or at least a joint investigation with coalition forces.

The comments by Nouri al-Maliki were his first on the March attack on a house south of Baghdad.

The prime minister, on a trip to Kuwait, also called for a review of the policy that grants coalition troops immunity from Iraqi prosecution. He said crimes against Iraqis are unacceptable.

http://www.wral.com/news/9475368/detail.html

[TexKat]

Scott L. Silliman, a military law expert at Duke University and retired Air Force colonel, said Green's diagnosis does not make it easier for his attorneys to plead insanity.

"That may be something that a federal court, in punishing upon conviction, might consider extenuating," Silliman said. "But is it in any way a legal excuse for what he's been charged with? No."

http://www.wral.com/news/9475368/detail.html

[TexKat]

Soldier charged with murder and rape [Mahmudiyah] http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1659721/posts?page=579

[TexKat]

Cousin recounts scene of farmhouse massacre

"Never in my mind could I have imagined such a gruesome sight," said Janabi.

He and his wife had to douse some of the flames before they could enter the home.

"Kassim's corpse was in the corner of the room, and his head was smashed into pieces," he said. The 5-year-old daughter, Hadeel, was beside her father, and Janabi said he could see that both of Fakhriya's arms had been broken.

In another room, he found 15-year-old Abeer, naked and burned, with her head smashed in "by a concrete block or a piece of iron."

"We put a piece of cloth over her body. Then I left the house together with my wife."

Also with him were the two young boys in the family, both of whom had been at school when the killings occurred but were at the house when Janabi and his wife arrived.

On Monday, Steven D. Green, 21, a former private with the 502nd Regiment, was charged in Charlotte, N.C., in the case.

More

[TexKat]

Speaking to reporters after a Cabinet meeting, al-Maliki also repeated his demand for an independent investigation into the rape-slaying of an Iraqi girl in March in Mahmoudiya. Three members of the girl's family were also slain.

Former Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged Monday in federal court in Charlotte, N.C., with rape and four counts of murder. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation in the attack.

"We said we want an investigation in order to know the facts," al-Maliki said. "In addition to the investigation, we will discuss this matter with concerned sides to stop such practices that we see every day — crimes that stink."

He said coalition forces need more cultural education and training to stem the mounting allegations of abuse of Iraqi civilians by U.S. forces.

The "many mistakes committed by members of the multinational forces arouse sadness among the Iraqi people," al-Maliki said. "We will talk to the officials in the multinational forces to set rules. ... Our people cannot tolerate that every day there is an ugly crime such as that in Mahmoudiya."

On Wednesday, al-Maliki called for an Iraqi investigation — or at least a joint inquiry — into the March 12 rape and murder of Abeer Qassim Hamza, and the killing of her mother, father and sister at their home.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_prime_minister;_ylt=Am0p5eWhLaAddaHxd_VAt6qs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki gestures during his press conference, Thursday, July 6, 2006, in Baghdad, Iraq. Maliki vowed to clean up the 160,000-strong force charged with protecting the country's facilities and infrastructure from the influence of criminals and militias. Maliki said the Facilities Protection Service (FPS), founded during the rule of the US-led occupation authority in 2004 and later expanded, has proven 'ineffectual and impotent' in preventing the attacks that have crippled the country's oil and power infrastructure. (AP Photo/Ali al-Saadi/pool)

[TexKat]

Former soldier accused of murder could leave Charlotte

08:27 AM EDT on Thursday, July 6, 2006
By NICOLE KONKAL / 6NEWS

PATRICK SCHNEIDER/Observer Staff

Former Army soldier Steven D. Green (center) is escorted by U.S. Marshals from United States Federal Courthouse in Charlotte Monday after making his first court appearance.

A former soldier now accused of murder and rape in Iraq could be moved out of Charlotte today.

Steven Green is now at the center of an international controversy and we’re learning more about his past and why he was discharged from the Army.

Green is still being held in a jail cell away from other inmates, but he could be leaving Charlotte today to be extradited back to Kentucky.

Green is heading back to Kentucky because that is where his former unit is based and where the charges were filed. He waived his right to a probable cause hearing, which was scheduled for Monday in Charlotte.

Green, 21, is accused of the March rape and killing of an Iraqi woman and her three relatives.

Green grew up in Midland, Texas and dropped out of high school. He later got his GED. He was deployed to Iraq in September 2005. Military officials said he was discharged in May for having an "anti-social personality disorder."

US Army General William Caldwell said the investigation is far from over.

"We will face every situation honestly. We will leave no stone unturned in pursuit of the facts and will hold our service members accountable if and when found guilty of misconduct of the court of law," Caldwell said.

Green was arrested in North Carolina because he was allegedly visiting his grandmother.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/wcnc-070606-al-soldier.2ea095df.html

[JCEccles]

Well it is pretty hard to get past the two sworn statements.

Sworn statements that implicate the witnesses themselves in serious crimes. That's generally reliable indicia of truth at the core of the statements.

I cannot see any of the defense attorneys denying that these people were murdered, and that the young girl was raped, or that some or all of the identified soldiers were involved. Rather, there will be vigorous attempts to minimize one's involvement.

Given this number of self-implicated witnesses, the odds are pretty good that the whole truth will come out, and it won't be pretty.

[TexKat]

Cousin tells of death scene He was first to the site of rape of girl, killing of her family - sfgate

Initially, U.S. military officials said the killings were the result of intra-Iraqi feuding, a believable conclusion given the dozens of revenge killings that happen each day throughout the country. But a U.S. soldier came forward recently with rumors of American involvement in the rape and killings. On Monday, Steven D. Green, 21, a former private with the 502nd Regiment, was charged in Charlotte, N.C., in the case. The Army has said that no other soldiers have been charged or detained, but that several were under close supervision in Iraq.

Janabi said an American investigator told him that a high-ranking U.S. officer wished to pay his condolences to the family. The next day, he brought Fakhriya's cousin, Mohammed, to the base along with the two boys to meet the commander.

"He hugged the children and kissed them several times," Janabi said. "It was hard for him to control his tears."

More

[TexKat]

"Reckless" soldiers should stay home: Iraqi PM

By Ibon Villelabeitia

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's prime minister urged the U.S. military on Thursday to keep "reckless" troops from serving in Iraq in order to prevent abuses like the alleged rape and murder of a teenager and her family by U.S. soldiers in March.

Expanding on calls for an independent inquiry and a review of foreign troops' immunity from Iraqi law, Nuri al-Maliki said commanders should do a better job in preparing their soldiers.

"There needs to be a plan to educate and train soldiers, and those who are brought to serve in Iraq shouldn't bear prejudices nor be reckless toward people's honor," Maliki said.

The U.S. military is investigating a group of its soldiers over the rape and killing of a family of four in Mahmudiya, south of the capital, in a case that has strained relations between Washington and Baghdad.

Former private Steven Green, 21, has been charged with rape and murder in a U.S. federal court. He had been discharged from the army because of a "personality disorder" before the case came to light.

At least three other soldiers are being investigated in the case.

"The Mahmudiya incident and other incidents before that ... produce sadness, pain and condemnation from Iraqis," Maliki said.

More

[TexKat]

Foreign troop immunity from Iraqi law must be reviewed: PM

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Iraq's Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has said that the blanket immunity enjoyed so far by foreign troops must be reviewed following allegations of rape and murder by US soldiers in Iraq.

"We have to review the immunity enjoyed by members of these forces or look for ways in which Iraqis can participate in the investigation," he said.

"A lot of mistakes have been committed before Mahmudiyah that have caused grief and anger in the Iraqi people who cannot tolerate these brutal crimes for very long."

The Justice Department has said that Steven Green, 21, could face the death penalty if convicted over the latest of a string of alleged atrocities committed by US soldiers against Iraqis.

Sunni Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi called Thursday for severe punishment for the US soldiers responsible for the crimes and said the US government must make amends with the conservative tribes of Mahmudiyah.

This came after demands by some MPs for an independent Iraqi investigation into the incident and calls by Justice Minister Hashem al-Shibli for the United Nations to be involved in the case.

[TexKat]

Former soldier's father retains local attorney

Shanna Sissom City Editor Midland Reporter-Telegram

07/06/2006

Lawyer says former soldier's father is 'shocked' at allegations.

The father of a former Midland soldier accused in the rape and murder of an Iraqi woman and her family is "shocked" by allegations against his son, his attorney said Wednesday.

Midland attorney Hal Brockett was retained by John Green, father of Army Pfc. Steven Dale Green, to act as a spokesman in wake of massive publicity about his son's case.

"The last time I talked to him, he was naturally shocked at the allegations made. I don't think he knows anything about it," Brockett said.

Charges brought against 21-year-old Steven Green by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Louisville, Ky., allege that on March 12 while stationed in Mahmudiayh, Iraq, with the 101st Airborne Division, Green and three other soldiers went to a home near Traffic Control Point 1, near Mahmudiayh, to rape one of the women living there.

Using an AK-47, Green allegedly shot and killed an adult male, an adult female and a female child present in the house. The charges also allege after participating in the rape of the second adult female, Green shot and killed her.

Brockett said he has been acquainted with John Green since they attended Lee High School together. The attorney said John Green contacted him, anticipating media inquiries. Brockett said he himself has been contacted by the Washington Post, Good Morning America and many other media outlets.

Green attended school in Midland from 1990 to 2002, completing 10th grade at Coleman High School, Midland Independent School District Communications Director Melissa Hendrix-Beach said.

Green, who previously had been honorably discharged due to a personality disorder, was stationed in Fort Campbell, Ky., with the 101st Airborne Division of the U.S. Army, according to the arrest affidavit.

Speaking in general terms, Veterans Outreach Counseling Center team leader Kent Knight said 15 to 20 percent of Midland veterans returning from Operation Iraqi Freedom have received counseling at his agency.

Knight, who has a master's degree in social work, said a person with a personality disorder might not know he had a problem. Those with antisocial personality disorders might have a hard time in social environments and might have hostility.

When a personality disorder is recognized in service members, they are discharged from the military, Knight said.

Knight said 15 to 20 percent of veterans returning from the war are having problems adjusting to life after the war. "The remaining 85 percent may be having it but don't want anyone to know about it. If they admit to their family they are having a problem, that's pretty much the end of it," he said.

Repeated attempts to reach the U.S. Attorney's Office in Louisville for a status report on the case were unsuccessful.

[TexKat]

The brothers Ahmed, 9, left, and Mohammed Qassim Hamza, 11, of the young Iraqi girl who was allegedly raped then killed along with family members, sit at the stream behind their home, Thursday, July 6, 2006, in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, Iraq. Former US Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged Monday in federal court in Charlotte, North Carolina, with rape and four counts of murder. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation in the attack. (AP Photo/Ali al-Mahmouri)

Neighbor and eyewitness Hussein Mohammed, 33, points to the charred and blood splattered floor and wall where he found the body of the young Iraqi girl who was allegedly raped then killed along with family members in their home, Thursday, July 6, 2006, in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, Iraq. Former US Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged Monday in federal court in Charlotte, North Carolina, with rape and four counts of murder. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation in the attack. (AP Photo/Ali al-Mahmouri)

Neighbor and eyewitness Hussein Mohammed, 33, points to the blood splattered floor and wall where he found the three killed family members of the young Iraqi girl who was allegedly raped then killed in another room in their home, Thursday, July 6, 2006, in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, Iraq. Former US Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged Monday in federal court in Charlotte, North Carolina, with rape and four counts of murder. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation in the attack. (AP Photo/Ali al-Mahmouri)

Ahmed Qassim Hamza, 9, brother of the young Iraqi girl who was allegedly raped then killed along with family members, sits at the stream behind his home, Thursday, July 6, 2006, in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, Iraq. Former US Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged Monday in federal court in Charlotte, North Carolina, with rape and four counts of murder. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation in the attack. (AP Photo/Ali al-Mahmouri)

[OmahaFields]

"Knight, who has a master's degree in social work, said a person with a personality disorder might not know he had a problem. Those with antisocial personality disorders might have a hard time in social environments and might have hostility. When a personality disorder is recognized in service members, they are discharged from the military, Knight said."
< sarcasm>
And the excuses begin. The liberal MSM strikes again.
< sarcasm>

[justshutupandtakeit]

I have my doubts about this whole case but there is none about the PoS Saddam who has committed THOUSANDS of crimes far worse. Where is the outrage against HIM?

It does not help to have those directly connected to the Terrorists as chief spokesmen about this crime either.

[TexKat]

Families clueless in Iraq slayings