Posted on 07/05/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by pissant
First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.
Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.
In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.
Questions:
In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".
In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.
So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.
Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.
In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?
In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.
In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.
Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.
I think details are important. A time line can make or break a case. I just think that that one detail is probably a mistake in this document because of the overwhelming amount of information that this occured on the 12.
The neighbor makes a number of claims.
- on fire.
- lifted her white gown to her newck.
- torn her bra.
- blood flowing from between her legs.
- intense fire in the room.
- she had been turned on her face.
- lower part of her body was raised.
- hands and feet were tied.
Probable terrorist giving this report - so there may be some embellishment.
The age discrepancy is pretty big. The military should have been able to find out who all the victims were and their respective ages. For them to be 10 years off is a big red flag that someone is lying.
Iraq rape, killings appear as if 'studied'
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/special_packages/iraq/14950779.htm
Please note: "One resident of the village of Mahmoudiyah al-Kasr al-Awsat told The Washington Post yesterday that the young woman had complained of harassment by U.S. soldiers each time she passed through an American checkpoint. The resident, Omar Janabi, said in an interview that the woman's family had taken the precaution of sending her to spend nights with a neighboring family. But the soldiers attacked the family's house during the daytime, when everyone was at home, said Janabi.
So why would the affidavit state that they were drinking on the 11th, yes, specifically the 11th. And if the attack occurred at 2:00 PM on the 12th, why would they wear black so they would not "be seen". Its screwed up, I'm telling you.
Do kids go to school there on sundays, or saturdays for that matter?
There is school on Sunday? This is the arab world. Their holy day is Friday. Anyone know the answer to this?
But 'everyone' was supposedly not home. The two boys were at school.
Why were the two girls not at school?
So if it is a school day, is it also not a work day? Then the dad should possibly be at work too.
So why would the affidavit state that they were drinking on the 11th, yes, specifically the 11th. And if the attack occurred at 2:00 PM on the 12th, why would they wear black so they would not "be seen". Its screwed up, I'm telling you
Yes, it is screwed up.
Who would commit such a crime in broad daylight? Geez. But then, who would go through with a rape after killing the parents.
You are hypothesizing that it was at night. However, if it was at night, then the two boys would have been home too.
From item #9 in the affidavit:
"On 6/26/2006, SOI2 was interviewed and explained that on the EVENING of 3/11/06, Green and KP1 talked about raping the woman" snip...."Subsequent to the conversation discussing raping the woman, SOI2, SOI3, KP1 and Green went to the home...."
Not hypothesizing it was night, they affidavit says it was.
In the same item #9, SOI2 says he changed into dark clothes so he "wouldn't be seen"
I know, but other than struggling with the incongruent facts, I am not sure of where you are trying go with this.
If you run down each of the logical paths, eventually you find the one that must be correct.
Which one are you trying to run down.
Hypothesis = GREEN is innocent.
Then SPI1; SPI2; and SPI3 are lying.
So why would they lie?
Perhaps threatened with the death penalty.
Rumors were flying.
Military was investigating.
Trying to save themselves by sinking an
unliked soldier.
The lie could have started out small and then grown
on them.
The crime committed that night.
Then they come back the next day to with Green to
pin it on him.
He goes in to back room and finds them all dead.
Comes out and says, "they are all dead".
They talk him into helping to burn the body.
Who knows why.
Or perhaps just some trash outside the house.
Doesn't help with the two boys. Perhaps they
sleep at school.
It now seems possible that the murders were done in the early hours and the bodies not discovered till the next day?
The afidavit has some issues.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1661048/posts
He was given a discharge on May 16 for what military officials in Iraq told The Associated Press was an "anti-social personality disorder." The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.
A psychiatric condition, anti-social personality disorder is defined as chronic behavior that manipulates, exploits, or violates the rights of others. Someone with the disorder may break the law repeatedly, lie, get in fights and show a lack of remorse.
So what do we know about the revenge killings? Who got killed? Where were they on the night in question? To the terrorists have good G2. Did they know who was really involved and get two of them? Or did they just know the right unit an hit that? Something at this scene broke the story. The military started digging. The other culprits come up with a plan to pin it on someone else and try to save their own necks from a revenge killing. (This is pretty weak speculation).
I think that when this gets ironed out, we will find that the affidavit, while not the best written, is not that far off. I think some of the Iraqi witnesses are not exactly reliable. For example they say the guys that did it came out of the house and surrounded it with the local forces. This (and the time 2:00 PM make it seem more like this was the US team that was sent to investigate.
I've been trying to find the article but I saw yesterday where an American "official" stated that the reason was that SG was deemed a threat to the civilian population.
I have not formed a hypothesis at all at this point. It certainly seems that there is a good chance that the soldiers may have done this, with the most damning evidence, despite the nagging timeline and discrepancies, being admissions by SOI2 and SOI3. SOI1 and SOI5 were not there, and they only cloud the timeline.
ANd we have heard nothing from KP1 in the affidavit.
And who was in command that night, it never says, though SOI3 claims "he did what he was ordered to do".
One distinct possibility. But Jalabi the neighbor told the WaPost it was done at 2:00 in the afternoon. How he would know that, I don't know.
Gotta run gentlemen. See you on the flip side.
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