What Muslims think

Jerusalem Post ^ | 27 jun 06 | Daniel Pipes

[winner3000]

(only 32 percent of the British sample view Muslims as violent)

Based on the fact (in a later part of the article) that British Muslims have the most virulent views of the West, the 32% should be increasing with time.

[Valin]

Stupid question: Has ANYONE gone and (actually) read this report?
The Great Divide: How Westerners and Muslims View Each Other
Europe's Muslims More Moderate
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253
(for those who don't know how to use Google simply click above link)
A quick look at the report will willl show this fine piece of reporting (/sarcasm) is spin worthy of anything found in the NY Times...or Move-On.org
(Example)
Most have little or no confidence in bin Laden

French Muslims (A lot/some) 5% (Not too much/ no confidence) 93%
Greman Muslims 7% 83%
Spainish Muslims 16% 75%

Turkey 4% 79%
Jordan 24% 74%
Egypt 26% 71%
Indonesia 33% 72%
Pakistan 38% 30%

Nigerian Muslims 61% 33%

---

Voices from Countries
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=834

Voices from Egypt
In the Arab and Islamic worlds and on the Western side, we have not done enough to try to approach each other to explain our position to one another. We have not tried to have a coherent dialogue. This is a mistake that we both share. One of the examples of the lack of proper dialogue was the recent question of caricature of the prophet. The West looked at this issue from the perspective of freedom of expression and was not ready to listen to the view in relation to how this was insulting to us. Many people in the Islamic and Arab worlds also asked for dialogue, but some reacted in a violent way which was counterproductive."
- Hesham Youssef, chief of staff of the secretary general's office, Arab League

"Muslims are responsible for their lack of prosperity. Muslims do not follow the teachings of their religion. If they work hard, cooperate and pay their charity there will be no poor government. But rich people are selfish. Governments are corrupt and they do not do any good planning to benefit from their countries' wealth.... Western foreign policy is also to blame. We see them coming here occupying our countries, taking the oil. Muslim countries are rich in natural resources, enjoy the best weather. That is why Western governments want to control us and take over our wealth. Look what they did in Iraq, Afghanistan, and what they are doing now in Sudan. They just want an excuse to interfere in Sudan and stay there and never leave."
- Abeer Ali Muhmmad, 38, fitness trainer, Giza

"I believe the American foreign policy is responsible for the greedy image. They support dictatorships because they want their oil. But on the other hand I do not believe Western people are intolerant. We see them engaged in humanitarian causes. While many Westerners took to the street to protest wars or mistreatment of minorities, people in Egypt or other Muslim places do not do anything."
- Mohsen Hamed Hassan, 43, physician, Cairo

Voices from France

Reporting by the International Herald Tribune*

"It's true that relations are bad, but to go from there to saying who's wrong? I think everyone bears some responsibility. On the Muslim side, it's too much religion, religion, religion, and they don't want to open up to others. Personally, I think Muslims are a bit aggressive and they neither accept nor respect the religion of others. As though everything has to go their way. In the end, the others don't respect them either. No one is making an effort."
- Jeannine Pilé, 33, housewife and mother

"There are a lot of people who don't like each other, Europeans and Muslims, because of religion, but that's not always why. There are a lot of Muslims who are much more open, who don't pray regularly -- that's what I see in France. What happens in other countries I don't know. From what I see it's half and half in France. There are some who are super-cool, who are not practicing, who are very open to France, and others who are less. I would say half and half."
- Wahid Chekhar, 34, actor

Voices from Great Britain

Reporting by the International Herald Tribune*

"It's hard to pin the blame on anyone. The problem with the Muslims in Britain, certainly the South Asian community, is they came from very low social backgrounds, from villages in Pakistan. The gap between civilizations was so great that they could not meaningfully integrate. The second generation born and gone to school here, and they suffer from a quite serious inferiority complex. Here are these young men, full of energy and aspirations, but it takes a while to integrate into the upper echelons of any society. I think there are a lot of frustrations among a group which feels it has not been able to get where it could have or should have."
- Ali Abbas, 31, an economist who migrated from Pakistan

"Relations are bad, for two reasons, one political, one spiritual. The political one is all about oil. The East has the oil and the West hasn't. They want it. Our countries are very weak. Iraq has made a big difference to opinion, particularly in Britain. They want to bring the oil price down. It's all about greed. As for the spiritual aspects, I respect Christianity and Judaism absolutely but they are heading towards secularism. There is not enough respect for the spiritual side of life. People in this country describe themselves as Christian, but then you ask them, when was the last time you went to church?"
- Hojjat Ramzy, 52, is an Iranian-born Muslim chaplain for Sunni Muslim in Oxford

"My perception is that when you get down and talk to people there isn't a great clash of civilizations. Particularly from a women's point of view. I have just come back from Saudi Arabia and I was struck by the fact that women have so much in common in what they want to change.... In my early twenties I simply blamed the West for dividing countries against each other, but in my thirties and forties I have seen more about the reality of government and I now feel that these countries haven't done themselves many favors."
- Baroness Pola Uddin, 46, born in what is now Bangladesh and the first Muslim woman member of the House of Lords

"After the bombings on 7 July last year I was surprised by how fantastic Londoners were, and how many people were able to look beyond what had happened. Of course it's not a perfect society, but I was expecting the backlash to be a lot worse...Where we are at the moment? We have two sides that don't understand each other particularly well. And I think both are equally responsible. I think the Muslims need to be introspective and look at their community from within and put their house in order. We do have a serious issue in terms of the miseducation of youth about Islamic practices, what's acceptable and what is not. We have to look at the importation of foreign imams. For me a lot of the misunderstanding comes from social and economic problems, for example up north it's a totally different situation from London. "
- Shahedah Vawda, 33, a health scientist originally from South Africa

Voices from Indonesia

"World politicians and the media are mostly to blame for the bad relationship between the West and Muslim countries. But especially Western politicians from superpower countries because they often issue double-standard regulations that hurt Muslims -- i.e. the Gulf War, the Iraq invasion, Israel and Palestine, etc. And the Western media often aggravates these conflicts with disproportionate and biased news coverage."
- Rahmawati Husein, 40, professor, Yogyakarta

What I have learned since I was a kid was that there have always been wars between Muslims and Christians or Catholics. They are labeled as religious wars. But the truth is that these wars were fought, and are fought, for political and economic interests. The religion is not the problem, it's the people behind the religion. In my opinion, both Muslims and Westerners contributed equally to worsen the misunderstanding between the two groups. Unfortunately, religion has always been politicized for political and economical interests...In my opinion, if Muslims nations want to be more prosperous, they have to stop using violence as a solution and start building business. Islam needs to change in order to achieve glory."
- Imam Karyadi Aryant, 25, fashion designer, Yogyakarta

"In the Quran, Allah said to Muhammad, "I won't change somebody's fate unless they're trying" -- meaning, if Muslims want to be more prosperous, they must be willing to learn from the past, be open to criticism, be willing to learn new things and also help each other. There should be a stronger Muslim international organization that promotes bonds between Muslim countries, which would function like the United Nations. I know that capitalism adds to the deterioration of developing countries, but I'm ashamed to always use that as an excuse."
- Atiyatul Izzah, 21, university student, Yogyakarta.

Daniel Pipes should know better I am very disappointed in him.

[Cyber Liberty]

Titled "The Great Divide: How Westerners and Muslims View Each Other," it interviewed Muslims in two batches of countries: six of them with long-standing, majority-Muslim populations (Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Nigeria, Pakistan, Turkey) and four of them in Western Europe with new, minority Muslim populations (France, Germany, Great Britain, Spain).

Exactly how does the study cast light on "How Westerners and Muslims View Each Other" when they only interviewed Muslims? Wouldn't a better title for the study be "How Muslims View The West?"

[Valin]

See reply 62

[bitt]

'Daniel Pipes should know better I am very disappointed in him.'

I took it that he was merely reporting some of the responses and leaving the reader to make their own interpretations...

[Valin]

Cherry picking facts is not sometthing I expect from Pipes.

[bitt]

yes, I'd like to see a little condemnation of some of the 'facts'...but the respnses are so 'horrific' that I gave him a pass and thought that the irrationality speaks for itself...

The responders are murderous lunatics. Or they know how to push the buttons of the media and the pollsters...

[MattinNJ]

By that time, they will all be in Eurabia

[potlatch]

Thanks bitt, I get enough pings now, lol.

[Fishrrman]

GBA asks:
The real question is not so much where are we now, but where is all of this going? Does anyone think things are going to get better and we're all going to live in peaceful harmony? Or, is this leading to something else altogether?

Peaceful harmony?

It is leading to "something else altogether":
Armageddon.

The greatest struggle in human history, so violent, bloody and gruesome that it will make the Holocaust resemble a pajama party by comparison.

And - at least today - their side has a better chance of winning than does ours. I hope that changes.

- John

[Valin]

Does anyone think things are going to get better and we're all going to live in peaceful harmony?

Maybe you could show me one place/time where people lived in "peaceful harmony"? Because I've not been able to find it.

[GBA]

"Maybe you could show me one place/time where people lived in "peaceful harmony"? Because I've not been able to find it."

I agree that competitive conflict is the way of the physical world and competitive conflict is certainly a part of human nature. No matter how civilized we pretend we are, the law of the jungle lives and breathes in each and every one of us. However, we do find productive outlets that release these energies, such as with sports or business. We often do seem to be able to work through our differences without killing each other much of the time.

Peace and harmony might not be lasting, but when I look around the world since the end of the cold war at just about every conflict, war, etc. what group seems to be the cause? Muslims. Muslims against each other. Muslims against the world.

Throughout history, on a local and global scale, this one group doesn't play well with others, doesn't want to play well with others and this behavior seems to be escalating. I think it's going to get much worse before it gets better and, despite what the left might believe, appeasment or pretending it's not happening won't make it go away.

[mississippi red-neck]

if it were truly more just for them to die, God would have found another servant to carry out His wishes.

The thing about it is God is not through dealing with them yet.

If you read and study Ezekiel God does punish them for the way they have been treating their brothers down through the ages.

He deals with them Himself in Eze 38&39 and the stage is being set for that now.

Then He deals with the rest of the world for the way for they/we have treated Israel and Him in Revelation.

[ccmay]

Likewise, suicide bombing is popular. Muslims who call it justified range from 13 percent (in Germany) to 69 percent (in Nigeria).

Isn't that an interesting coincidence? I was thinking that's about how many Muslims we are going to have to kill, to bring the rest to heel once and for all.

-ccm

[RobbyS]

Moral of the story: DO NOT ACCOMODATE THEM.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[jongaltsr]

I lived in the Middle East for over 4 years. What I learned is that Arabs think what they are told to think. They are fed Pablum and they regurgitate Pablum.

[Democratshavenobrains]

I'm guessing that the British Muslims are more outspoken in their hate because they know they are protected by Anglo Saxon common law instead of harsher Napoleonic Law in the rest of Europe.