Posted on 06/27/2006 11:37:28 AM PDT by Spiff
House Race Hotline Extra: Utah 03 Some quotes to illustrate the importance of this race.
"There is a very good chance that he could go down," Jeff Hartley, executive director of the Utah Republican Party, tells First Read. "You wouldn't have the involvement from the White House if he weren't in jeopardy." (NBC News)
Consultant LeVarr Webb: "A low turnout is expected, so be one of the few who make a difference and have a voice." (Utah Policy Daily) )
UT GOP Chair Joe Cannon "says he's trying to stay neutral" in his brother's UT 03 primary, "but it didn't come across that way" in his online comments about challenger/alleged Satan victim John Jacob (Salt Lake Tribune).
A poll published over the weekend by the Deseret Morning News and KSL-TV, conducted by Dan Jones & Associates, found Cannon ahead — 46-33 percent among registered voters in the 3rd District. But 18 percent of voters remained undecided. "That's one of the highest 'undecideds' numbers I've seen so close to a primary election," said Jones, who has polled in Utah for more than 30 years. (Deseret News)
Jacob backtracks on his "Satan" comments: "What the [Salt Lake Tribune] reported and what I said weren't the same thing. It wasn't that [the devil] was trying to keep me out of Washington. I was just saying when you're trying to get into politics, there's a lot of adversity. … Contrary to reports of saying it was keeping me from being there, it was going to help me in training when I get there. It's not the devil; it's adversity." (Utah Policy Daily)
"Reagan also said "a nation without borders isn't a nation" and openly complained the US had lost control of its borders."
No one is calling for open borders, so let's just give that conceit a rest right now. No one is proposing we do away with the borders, so let's have an honest debate not one based on over-simplifications. And despite the employee sanctions you talk of being put into the 1986 bill, none of it was ever enforced, so what good was it besides just being talk?
I have a very Republican and Conservative point of view. One that is shared by many Conservative Republicans as polls show as well as some of the leading Republican Conservatives in the Senate and by many other conservatives. There are conservative blogs out there that are championing this view. There is more to the world than Michelle Malkin and her friends. Also there are people on Free Republic that share this view. I know there has been an attempt to try to push these views aside in the conservative movement and Republican party by some but that effort is becoming more unsuccessful by the day.
Especially when these same groups went after very conservative Mike Pence
Yeah, boy, if I had to pay back taxes, $3200 fines and even was forced to go back to my home country to apply for re-entry, I'd sure feel like I was getting off scott free...
And what's YOUR solution, put them all in prison? No? You recognize that would be impossible? Then I guess by your definition you're for amnesty too. AMNESTY LOVER!!!
"Whether you know it or not you're making the point for us. Illegal immigration increased after 1986"
Because a mistake is made once means we don't have the sense and ability to not repeat the mistake?? What failed was the lack of follow up enforcement. Look, I'm not going to be for any guest worker bill that doesn't increase enforcement and border control. I'm just saying we have to have this debate and it can't all be enforcement only. Something in between what the House and the Senate are proposing is probably the ticket. If anything, 1986 can be a guide for what NOT to do and how to NOT do a guest worker bill. It need not represent the inevitability of failure. I still believe in America's ability to get things right.
I think there is a hidden agenda here, but Dane won't fess up on what it is.
~LOL~...
No one "went after" Mike Pence. They disagreed with his misguided proposal that undermined HR 4437 that was written and passed by conservatives in the House. Pence is still a member of Tom Tancredo's Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus and is still on the right side of the immigration debate. His proposal, on the other hand, is not doing very well.
On the other hand, a number of groups and posters here have GONE AFTER Rep. Tom Tancredo who is just about the most conservative Republican in the House of Representatives. I don't hear you complaining about that. In fact, I see you participating in it.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
CANNON: That disagreement is whether the Republican Party is going to be some kind of new xenophobic, anti-foreigner party, or whether they're going to be the party of a country that we're thrilled has grown.
JACOB: You need to know, Chris, that it's not anti-foreigners. We love legal immigrants. It's strictly the word illegal
Really, HMM I think Jacob needs to take a look at FAIR , NUMBERS, CIS, and the other 6 Tanton Groups that are aligned with Tancredo and he will see that these people pretty much oppose legal immigration.
Of course according to this blogger Jacob has not done much to read up on the issue.
Cannon spoke intelligently about the Pence plan (an immigration compromise, of sorts), and then Jacob said he was at a disadvantage because Cannon can read the bill, whereas he has to rely on what he reads in the newspapers. Frankly, I fail to understand why a Republican congressional candidate could not just pick up the phone, call Representative Pence, and get whatever he wants inside ten minutes, including a draft of the plan (now available on the Web, but perhaps not there before the June 10 debate). Or he could read Pence's speech at the Heritage Foundation, where he described the plan in detail.
www.localcommentary.com/davidblog/20060626.htm
I think Jacob better enlighten himself. This is really not about legal immigration except for the fact that many want it stopped. This includes Tancredo who took the first step in his 2003 House Moratorium immigration bill that was lauded by the above groups as a good step.
Also Mr Jacob might inform sonce this is all about illegal immigration how come there have not been proposals by these organizations to fix the delays and make it easier to immigrate legaly. How come this has not been a part of the debate as well as part of a proposed soultions
But since Jacob hasnt analyzed the Pence Compromise I suspect we know the true answer.
I don't think Reagan was ever FOR illegal immigration. I don't think anyone other than on the far left thinks illegal immigration is a good thing. The issue is how to we come to grips with the reality that A) Millions of these people are here B) Sectors of the economy rely on their labor C) There is not practical way to deport 12 million people and D) We need to get control over who's here.
This is what we recognize, and what Reagan recognized. It's not that anyone is thrilled with illegal immigration. It's just about the reality of the situation and what we need to do to get control of it.
You're right, and again you're making the point for us, there's zero enforcement and until we go any further the borders need to be secured with a proven interior enforcement program in place. Then we can talk about guest worker programs.
I'm not sure where exactly we're disagreeing except maybe with Cannon's election since he supports a "path to citizenship", which would turn out to be another failed amnesty.
Yes. John Jacob's brand of amnesty makes much more sense.
Why do you say that? Are you a conservative?
The House legislation is a purely conservative bill. The Senate atrociy is a purely leftist bill. Why compromise at all with the leftist garbage that undermines any efforts to secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws and will only make matters worse. Stick to reality and conservative principles and never retreat.
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. - Barry GoldwaterA nation without borders is not a nation. - Ronald Reagan
I think there is a hidden agenda here, but Dane won't fess up on what it is
Figures no nothing Carolyn would show up on this thread.
Give us all a tancredoite/bay buchanan cheer, Carolyn.
Hey Oh, Hey oh
Let's all vote for candidate tancredo
Hey oh, Hey oh
Open borders anti--christ Cannon has got to go
Hey oh, hey oh
We cheerleaders don't know what were talking about, but when we do will let you know<
Hey oh, Hey oh, now we have to go
GO Team, Go Team, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Considering they paid that much just to come to this country via coyotes, I'd say that's a bargain. What they really want is a path to citizenship. Which makes the Senate plan amnesty - just as tax amnesties often don't absolve you of still needing to pay taxes. We should not be rewarding illegal behavior by giving illegals the prize of a path to citizenship, because history has shown we will just make the problem worse.
And what's YOUR solution, put them all in prison? No? You recognize that would be impossible? Then I guess by your definition you're for amnesty too. AMNESTY LOVER!!!
Well, I guess I could just leave you to debate yourself, seeing that you are writing my answers for me. But I'll answer anyway.
This has been discussed ad naseum. Secure the borders first. Crack down on employers hiring illegals. End government bennies for illegals. And then offer them a bus ride to leave. The buses coming back can be bringing in legal immigrants to replace them.
You've got that right. Except it's more like this:
Tom Tancredo®'s Congressional Immigration™ Reform CaucusIf you don't believe me, check out the ego-trip that is its website.
Jacob is just throwing ideas out there, the last I knew he wasn't sitting next to democrats demonizing conservatives who don't support him and claiming they don't belong in the GOP as Cannon did with Louis Gutierrez from Illinois. When I see Jacob doing that then it'll be time for him to go too.
The above should say, Figures know nothing Carolyn would show up on this thread.
I should never try to put myself in cheerleader mode, rots ones brains.
So why aren't you out there fighting to get rid of Murtha? What is your problem with Irey? Why is Utah politics such a hot issue to you that you have to insult every person who isn't one of your pro-illegals contigent?
"But since Jacob hasnt analyzed the Pence Compromise I suspect we know the true answer:
But we DO have Chris Cannon's voting record on immigration issues.
Spiff has posted it numerous times. Maybe you should go take a look.
The immigration issue may not float your boat. Maybe there are other conservative issues that float your boat.
But for many of us, immigration is THE ISSUE. It is neither better than the issues that are important to YOU, nor is it worse. It is just different.
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