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Nine Assumptions of Schooling and Twenty-one Facts the Institution Would Rather Not Discuss
Spinning Globe ^ | John Taylor Gatto

Posted on 06/25/2006 8:16:43 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued

I'll start off bluntly by giving you some data I'd be shocked if you already know. A few simple facts, all verifiable, which by their existence call into question the whole shaky edifice of American government compulsion schooling from kindergarten through college and its questionable connection with the job market. The implications of this data are quite radical so I'm going to take pains to ground it in the most conservative society on earth, the mountain world of Switzerland. You all remember Switzerland: that's where people put their money when they really want it to be really safe.

The Swiss just like us believe that education is the key to their national success, but that's where our similarity ends. In 1990 about 60% of American secondary school graduates enrolled in college, but only 22% did in Switzerland; in America almost l00% of our kids go to high school or private equivalents, but only a little over a fifth of the Swiss kids do. And yet the Swiss per capita income is the highest of any nation in the world and the Swiss keep insisting that virtually everyone in their country is highly educated!

What on earth could be going on? Remember it's a sophisticated economy which produces the highest per-capita paycheck in the world we're talking about, high for the lightly-schooled as well as for the heavily schooled, higher than Japan's, Germany's or our own. No one goes to high school in Switzerland who doesn't also want to go to college, three-quarters of the young people enter apprenticeships before high school. It seems the Swiss don't make the mistake that schooling and education are synonyms.

(Excerpt) Read more at spinninglobe.net ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: education; gatto; homeschool; homeschooling; johntaylorgatto; publicschools
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To: Graymatter

Thank you very much for the book recommendation! I'm taking my oldest daughter to the library tonight to play "Lord of the Rings Trivial Pursuit," and I'll either check the book out or reserve-list it.


101 posted on 06/26/2006 12:22:49 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Wallow in poverty, you whining gerbil! They're taking everyone's money!" ~dljordan)
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To: Tax-chick

Phoop. Not in the catalog, I'll have to interlibrary loan!


102 posted on 06/26/2006 12:25:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Wallow in poverty, you whining gerbil! They're taking everyone's money!" ~dljordan)
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To: stevestras

"I think I understand the benefits, just have a feeling that certain kinds of kids can be held back by homeschooling. Primarily naturally talented athletes."

You do make a point here. This is one area that HS probably can never address to the same level. And this also applies to most private schools unless they are prep schools, too, since most private schools don't have extensive athletic programs.

But it doesn't apply to all sports, just certain team sports like football, basketball, etc. Soccer has lots of options outside of school. Most any solitary sport such as tennis, swimming, gymnastics, etc. has good support outside of public school.

And it's nice to know that as long as there is a choice to HS or not then kids can still go to public school.


103 posted on 06/26/2006 1:27:21 PM PDT by webstersII
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To: wintertime

Some kids are definitely delayed by what is going on in schools. I think because each kid learns a little differently.

Unfortunately, if you have a special needs kid, even the best home environment won't help.

My 11 year old son really never had any homeschooling and started daycare at age 2. I never had time to read that much to him or worked on academics with him. However academically, he is way above his sisters. He reads at high school (or greater level), and he'll be Algebra I this next year.

My daughters got different attention. Both of them had speech problems when they were little: one of them severe. I read a lot to the girl. We did lots of arts and crafts, took them to the library, etc. We did lots of phonics work because of the speech problems. However, one of my daughters did not talk until she was 5 1/2 (even with 3 1/2 years of speech therapy).

Now, she's 9, and she does talk (not well even after 7 years of speech). However, her reading is getting stalled. I still spend lots of time reading with her (at least an hour a day), but she is still below grade level.

I will say my daughters have been in public school for 4 years. This past year was horrible in public school, so I am definitely not going to praise public school. The girls were in a good school that got closed.

This past year was so horrible that we've had to look for other options. We've strongly considered homeschooling, but I do not have the training to help my daughter with her reading. She needs someone trained in multi-sensory reading methods to help her. I could homeschool her and then take her to a tutor, but that is very expensive. Plus, it would be hard to teach my other daughter when I'm toting her sister to different tutors. We've opted for a small, private Christian school with a multi-sensory reading program.

Also, my daughters are terribly shy because of their speech problems. They don't talk much to people outside our family. They don't make friends easily, either. (You should see them after a summer at home. The girls are just hanging on to me, and one of them cries whenever I go run errands and leave them with dad.)

I think my son would do great with homeschooling. He's smart and sociable.

My point is that every kid is different, and you need to figure out what is best for your child and your family. Some kids will do great even in a mediocre public school environment, some will do great in private, and some will do great in homeschool.


104 posted on 06/26/2006 1:37:20 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: spinestein

My daughter is one of those kids being short-changed by public school. She has brain damage. Until this past year, she always kept up academically. Now, she is slipping behind in reading.

The school district does not want to even try another type of reading program with her (even though a learning specialist and neuropsychologist have recommended several). The school district wants to wait until she is 2 years behind before they help her.

I've tried working with my daughter, but it's not helping. We're putting her in a private school with a special ed teacher trained in teaching reading using different senses.

I'm hoping this helps my daughter. We'll have to wait a year before I know if we've done the right thing. If not, we'll try homeschooling.


105 posted on 06/26/2006 1:43:06 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: luckystarmom

You have lots of hard work ahead of you. Patience is your virtue.


106 posted on 06/26/2006 2:07:41 PM PDT by spinestein (Goodbye, Dan Rather. (Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.))
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To: wintertime

bttt


107 posted on 06/26/2006 4:48:31 PM PDT by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: CGVet58
Please define "bttt".
108 posted on 06/26/2006 5:15:02 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

bttt = "back to the top"

Every time a post is added to a thread, it appears at the top of the heap in the "Messages" section, which brings more attention to the thread. So, when someone posts "bump" or "bttt", they're hoping to attract more attention to the thread. (Can you tell I spend way too much time here?) ;-)


109 posted on 06/26/2006 5:59:47 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: Tired of Taxes
Re: bttt

Thank you.
110 posted on 06/26/2006 7:07:27 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: stevestras
I think I understand the benefits, just have a feeling that certain kinds of kids can be held back by homeschooling. Primarily naturally talented athletes. It would seem you might have to place them in a more traditional school by ninth grade, or risk limiting their potential.

I understand what your saying and to an extent I agree with you. But as I get older an realize whats truely important, and what is sold as important, I realize that sports have absolutely no importance in life. Yes maybe a child might be a "gifted" athlete. And maybe that giftedness will get him/her a college scholarship. But the time and focus a child puts in becoming a good athlete, is ultimately wasted in life.

Granted, they'll learn discipline, persistance, patience, delayed gratification, and sportmanship. But those are all attributes that can be learned else where, other than in sports. But in the long term of life what does sports offer? After high school? After college? If a person makes it into the pros how long is their career? 3-5 years? 10 if they're really good? Now you have someone 32 years old, who has focused all their best on something that is now worthless. Meanwhile they have 30-40 years of prime life still waiting.

Don't get me wrong, there have been some pro and collegiate athletes who have accomplished some great things other than sports. But for the most part college and pro athletes are spoiled pompous brats who think life revolves around them. And why? Because they can run, throw, jump well? When it comes down to it, sports is just another form of entertainment for the majority of us. Which makes athletes just another entertainer, like actors.

Imagine if a parent would focus there childs energy, in truely productive endeavors. Things like integrity, common sense, self control, self sacrifice, hard work (like manual labor), humility just to name a few.

Too many parents think that being a good parent is to give things and experiences to their kids, that they themselves never had. But the things that were important to being a good person 200 years ago, are still the same things that are truely important today. What has really changed are not the needs of people but the focus.

Lastly. Just to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm now 43 years old. I love to hike, backpack, camp, bike, ski and mountain climb (why do you think I'm Mountn Man?), but in H.S. I was a gymnast, and runner, and weight lifter. I played semi pro softball for 2 years and competetive softball until about 6-7 years ago. I also played 1 year of semi pro football in the Chicagoland area, and competetive ball till about 32. I've also played in some volleyball leagues abd basketball leagues. Maybe I wasn't a full blown jock, but I was definetly no wall flower.

As I get older, I realize more and more of what Solomon, the wisest person, said. That it is all vanity. He chased everything he desired, and in the end, its all vanity.

That is the most important thing parents can teach their kids. (Other than the ways of God)

111 posted on 06/26/2006 7:19:34 PM PDT by mountn man (Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.)
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To: stevestras
naturally talented athletes

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The government is running farm teams for the majors,,,AND,,,it is using tax money to it!

If government schools were eliminated and there was a system of universal private education, we would soon see the major leagues opening and running schools for talented youth.
Hey!...Why bother doing it now if the government can take money by threat of force from the taxpayer to pay for what the majors should be doing now?
112 posted on 06/26/2006 7:35:47 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

" The government is running farm teams for the majors,,,AND,,,it is using tax money to it!"


Excellent point!

I'd love to see what part of the $8000 per child the school spends goes toward athletics. I bet it's a huge part of it.


113 posted on 06/27/2006 5:05:19 AM PDT by webstersII
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To: Clintonfatigued
It seems the Swiss don't make the mistake that schooling and education are synonyms.

The great fallacy of education. I hope the penny drops here sometime soon.

114 posted on 06/27/2006 5:10:54 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: wintertime
Why isn't government schooling child abuse?

The worst aspect of government schooling is that it purports to "prepare children for life" yet assiduously avoids any teaching about God, life with whom is THE end of human life.

John Gatto is the only education writer that matters.

The Underground History of American Education.

115 posted on 06/27/2006 5:22:41 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: wintertime

bump to the top.

pvt mail coming later...


116 posted on 06/27/2006 5:30:20 AM PDT by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: usmom
Even when people compliment my children on their behavior/knowledge, they quickly follow it up with 'but what about (insert socialization, friends, test-taking, etc...)

In the end, the joke is on them.

117 posted on 06/27/2006 5:34:56 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: wintertime
I taught my children only to Algebra II using the Saxon math books.I learned as they learned, one problem at a time.

That's what my girls are doing, and they're doing fine. They're 1-2 years ahead of their peers despite a school day that lasts five hours, including 'homework' (working independently). That being said, neither one is particularly interested in math. One daughter loves to read, write and do crafts. At 11 she decided to write a Nancy Drew style mystery book. She's up to page 10, and it sounds just like a a Nancy Drew book. She's talking about being a nun when she grows up, teaching kids arts and crafts. My other daughter wants to have 20 kids. 8-)

Like Gatto says, each child has a particular destiny that he is drawn toward. Parents, and especially schools, must give children room to discern and pursue that destiny.

118 posted on 06/27/2006 5:41:53 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: stevestras
Athletics and friendships are important, I'm not sure how this can be compensated for when homeschooling young children.

My girls are typical. They play with the neighborhood kids every day. They play in town sports. They're in the church choir.

They're only missing out on bad "socialization," i.e., bullies and harmful peer influences. And they're comfortable speaking with people of all ages, since they're constantly interacting with people of various ages.

They're also missing out on staring out the window watching the gym class doing jumping jacks. What I wouldn't give to have those countless hours back...

119 posted on 06/27/2006 5:56:49 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: stevestras

"Honestly, you don't think homeschooled children miss out on the socialization with other kids? Athletics and friendships are important, I'm not sure how this can be compensated for when homeschooling young children."

My kneejerk reaction is to wonder how someone can be so uninformed, a simple google search will show that there are an amazing number of homeschool opportunities in sports and other areas. It is only when I slow down, that I remember that I had the exact same question 4 years ago when my family started homeschooling.

When my family started homeschooling, my oldest daughter was about to go into the 7th grade. Her love of basketball was a big concern for us. It took very little effort to find out that a nationally ranked homeschool basketball program was less than 30 minutes from our house. In the state of texas basketball rankings, the #12 and #75th ranked high school girls in the state are homeschooled (and in that program). Earlier this year, I coached my two youngest daughters in the 10 and under bracket at the national christian homeschool basketball championships. Though some lucky bracket pairings, a couple of nail biting wins (one was tied with 10 seconds left, the other we were down with one minute left), we took second place.

My children also compete in volleyball, speech & debate and math club. Additional social opportunities happen at the one day a week coop, youth group, puppet ministries and church.

Athletics and friendships are not homeschool losses... Homeschooling means that you can find an athletic program at the right level for your child's abilities. Homeschooling means that the parents can select the pool of kids that their child chooses their friends from.

Athletics and friendships are two of the reasons why I'm glad my family homeschools.

Craig


120 posted on 06/27/2006 6:54:24 AM PDT by csivils
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