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To: Red6; Michael81Dus
What I’m stating is that the statistical comparisons are largely bullshit. The laws are different, the entire legal system is different (except Louisiana), the enforcement of the laws is different, and the definitions of what these things mean is in many instances not even the same.

This is true and we are not speaking about the legal system alone. Values are completely different. Therefore: Statistics can not be compared. Nevertheless it is my personal observation that the US have areas where the crime rate is much more dense in comparison to Germany due to the wider social gap in the society. I lived as a student for some time in Hamburg/St.Georg which is for sure one of the most criminal areas (drugs/prostitution/anarchy) in Europe and found it much less dangerous than some areas in New York or LA. Of course those both towns do not represent the rest of the US, but they are a fundamental impression for most Europeans concerning this issue.

Anyway our different viewpoints hve sometimes a really funny outcome:

I remember the story of a young girl going in the US into a (woman's! - Buhuhaha!) sauna. She was arrested because she was walking naked into the sauna since some of your compatriots think that it is nessecary to wear clothes in a sauna (personally I think that - if we speak about men - the private parts of Amerian sauna visitors must be well done and not usable for their god-given designation anymore). This is something unthinkable in the old continent and the girl was not informed about this (to us strange) behaviour. Well I do not know if it is true but or just one of the lies of our press, but it would fit perfectly into the image. Although most saunas in Germany offer a "women's-day" or a "men's-day" they are usually used by a stark naked, mixed public of both sexes. Guess what? We have no problem with it. I used to go from being 16 into saunas (with my girl-friends back then) and I still do today with my wife and my sons although we have a own sauna in one of our houses. BTW - this experience did not made a notorious pervert of me...

Of course the girl acted wrong (even if she did not knew in advance) since she did something that is strictly forbidden in the host country and I do not want to proselytize Americans to nudity, since you guys and girls have to find out by yourselves what is fun or not.

Anyway it is a good example for trans-atlantic misunderstandig. Personally I think that the US have a scary rate of people being jailed (although as already said - statistics can not be compared):

France 100.000 inhabitants => 90 persons jailed

USA 100.000 inhabitants => 672 persons jailed

Source= (Justice Policy Institute, JPI) I just have it as a print. Sorry.

All in all there are more than 2 million people jailed in the US. Only Russia breaks this record. The Chinese shoot their prisoners, so they do not have crowded dungeons (sarcasm). Compared with the 80ties it is a increase of 61%. I do not know if it is a outcome of better police work or changed social circumstances and I do not know if the JPI is trustworthy. Anyway it is obvious that the US have a much bigger number of people in jails like we Europeans and their security situation is for sure not better.

Maybe you remember Helmut Kohl's famous words: "Es kommt darauf an, was hinten herauskommt."

89 posted on 06/26/2006 12:16:43 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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To: Atlantic Bridge

France 100.000 inhabitants => 90 persons jailed

USA 100.000 inhabitants => 672 persons jailed

The number of people in prison is in part a reflection of a justice system that is draconian compared to most of Europe. The US not only practices the death penalty in several states, but is simply much harsher when it comes to sentencing for MANY crimes.

Example: Rape, child molestation, murder, drug offenses, DUI/DWI.

http://www.jessicaslaw2006.com States that have Jessica's law in place (And many do) will automatically slap a MINIMUM 15 year (JAHRE!) to 25 years on a child molester (Freiheitsstraffe nicht Bewaegrung). You will not see this sort of sentencing in Germany for this type of crime.

http://www.lawinfo.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Client.lawarea/categoryid/139 Three strike rules impose an automatic 25 years sentence for an offender who commits a third crime.

This type of sentencing gives you large prison populations.

--

As to your examples- Let me throw out mine. Month 4 in Germany my wife car had its rims stolen. My father is in the State Department and works in Frankfurt today. His house has been broken into TWICE. I today live in a Plano Texas, before that in Germany, Georgia, Alaska, Korea...... Never was I burglarized. In Alaska I never locked my car, my house or anything else. In fact, to keep my car warm and prevent engine damage in extreme temperatures I would often let my car run when in the store for an extended period if plug-in were not available. My fear of someone stealing my car was just about zero.

No way in hell is Frankfurt safer than most US cities. http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/nachrichten/index.jsp?rubrik=14584&key=standard_document_5668166 Frankfurt in all reality has with 9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants the same rate as Los Angeles.

Another major issue is that the Germans are very reserved and "downplay" their freaks or issues while in the US everything is sensationalized and played up.

Shortly after Columbine you have a movie called “Bowling for Columbine”. The minor fact that in Germany you had TWO such instances and one with MORE dead than at Columbine is over looked by the German self proclaimed intellectual who tries to draw a connection between private gun ownership and violet crime. In Germany you have Homosexual S&M cannibals living in Rothenburg who flick off the judge during sentencing! You have a necrophilia murderer couple that first kills Oma and then has sex with her. Finally before leaving the apartment they poop all over in it in some ritual. At the Frankfurt train station there was a guy years ago who was selling AK47’s and taking orders for RPG’s in broad daylight! Even if you try to find something on it you can hardly do so. It’s no cover up, it’s just that the Germans don’t make a lot of fanfare about these events. This hardly made the news in the US. There is no TV drama that was immediately made that tells this story. Try finding a story about a guy in Frankfurt sniping people from the roof top in the downtown shopping area. It happened; did they make a movie about it?

A major aspect in this discussion is “perception”. Tell a German you live in Chicago and have a discussion on crime and you will guaranteed hear the mention of Al Capone.


91 posted on 06/26/2006 8:02:35 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Atlantic Bridge

You can go to jail in florida if you get cought steeling a mars bar for the third time.

Is there a better way to teach real crime to youngsters ?

A society without or with to less sanctions against missbehaviour doesn't work. But there's obviously more to crime prevention then just putting 16 year old chocolate thiefs into jail with the homicide convicted and drug addicts. (Jesus even my cat would be in jail there)

I don't know an area in germany where you expose yourself to the risk of beeing shot. I have lived in a multicultural and multi ethnical area during my student times. They broke into my car twice - but neither me nor my girl have been threatened or attacked.

Today i live in a more 'quiet' area as for the fact that there's a soccer stadium a block away. So I wouldn't leave my car open over night as they do in Sweden or Norway - but you certainly do that in the US as an example in 8 mile Detroit or downtown LA.

I cannot fathom a higher risk of getting shot in the western world then in the US.

Still like it - but not for the legal system or the crime stats.


96 posted on 06/28/2006 9:58:36 AM PDT by Rummenigge (Es gibt noch mehr wie Fußball auf der Welt)
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