Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Red6

LOL, you ain´t trying to paint the US as a peaceful country without violence, are you? We are not talking about differences in rating a certain behaviour. We are talking about crimes that are a crime in the US and in Germany, such as murder, manslaughter, assault, etc.

Check out www.nationmaster.com

Just compare that:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita

And please take refrain from allegations that we manipulate our statistics.

Nobody says that the Americans are in general a more criminal nation, but it is true that the comparative number of crimes against life and the physical integrity of the body is significantly higher in the States than in Europe.


79 posted on 06/25/2006 4:21:52 AM PDT by Michael81Dus (1954, 1974, 1990, 2006)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies ]


To: Michael81Dus

I don’t consider myself an expert in legal affaires. That’s not an area I feel exceptionally strong in. Nonetheless, I have made numerous personal observations and know for a fact that the Germans as a whole are a bit more “soft” on crime and many things punishable in the US are not even a crime in Germany. You don’t need to be a lawyer to know that Cannabis, prostitution, drinking ages, sale of pornography, DUI/DWI’s, indecent exposure, are issues that are not prosecuted at all or to the extent as in the US. While I am no lawyer, I do know a bit about statistics, and I also understand how definitions affect the outcome often since apples are compared to bananas in these comparisons.

Example: Germans often take the SAT or ACT exams and go to US colleges and universities. There are “studies” that show US students as being behind and scoring lower. Is this really the case? No, not at all. Near all German kids who take the SAT or ACT are abiturienten and are basically the upper ¼ -1/3 of the academic community, while in the US near all high school students at some point take this exam. You’re statistic is excluding those who stopped their education with a Haubt or Realschulabschluss which comprises the “bulk” of German kids. One does not need to think about this matter long to see the BS in the comparisons.

---
Let me give you another “real world” example that is on topic with crime comparisons.

If you rob a convince store in Florida, and you tell the person behind the counter to go anywhere in the store, (in other words you order them to move) they will now also prosecute you for kidnapping.

It’s largely a matter of definitions: http://www.pdsdc.org/CriminalLawDatabase/cldChargeDef.asp?DivID=cjdDeten

In the US people do every year get “arrested” for indecent exposure. People are tried, fined and go to jail for exposing themselves. http://www.pdsdc.org/CriminalLawDatabase/cldChargeDef.asp?DivID=cjdDeten

The elements of this offense are:

1. The defendant made any obscene or indecent exposure of his or her person, or made any lewd, obscene, or indecent sexual proposal, or committed any other lewd, obscene, or indecent act; (Penalty: up to $300 fine, 90 days, or both) OR
2. The defendant committed the above offense; AND
3. The defendant was in the presence of a child under the age of 16 years;
4. The defendant knew he or she was in the presence of a child under the age of 16 years (Penalty: up to $1,000 fine, 1 year, or both).

In Frankfurt you have a guy that runs around naked in Saxenhausen and people laugh at him, in the US they would arrest him! Do you understand the difference? He is a legend in Saxenhausen at least in the late 90s when he was still around. I’m not saying that in the US we always make sense. Arresting German tourists in Florida because they had to urinate and did so behind some bushes for indecent exposure does not make sense to me either. But the point is simply that these comparisons in crime statistics are invalid before they are even computed. The definitions of these laws, enforcement of them, etc is different.

The definition of assault in the District of Columbia: http://www.pdsdc.org/CriminalLawDatabase/cldChargeDef.asp?DivID=cjdDeten

The elements of this offense are:

A. Attempted-Battery Assault:

1. The defendant made an attempt or effort, with force or violence, to injure another person;
2. The time the defendant made that attempt of effort, he or she had the apparent present ability to injure that person;
3. The defendant made the attempt or effort voluntarily and on purpose, not by mistake or accident;
4. The defendant’s conduct was not justified by the use of reasonable parental discipline.

B. Intent-to-Frighten Assault:

1. The defendant committed a threatening act that reasonably would create in another person a fear of immediate injury;
2. The time the defendant made that attempt of effort, he or she had the apparent present ability to injure that person;
3. The defendant made the attempt or effort voluntarily and on purpose, not by mistake or accident;
4. The defendant’s conduct was not justified by the use of reasonable parental discipline.

C. Non-Violent Sexual Touching Assault:

1. The defendant committed a sexual touching on another person;
2. When the defendant committed the touching, he or she acted voluntarily and on purpose, and not by mistake or accident;
3. The other person did not consent to being touched by the defendant in that manner.

Like Florida that often throws kidnapping on top of the list of other charges for anyone robbing a store, if you commit indecent exposure, there is a high likelihood that you will also be charged with assault on top of that! Assault is a near catch all in the US. Cases of child abuse are often issues that end up with assault charges.

In sue happy America; MOST cases of assault do not include what is called battery. They are simple assault cases.

If you threaten me, even if you never touch me, I can "sue you" for assault just on the basis of you “scaring me”. The mere act of a threat is already something that constitutes assault and where money can be made, lawyers are present, offering their services.

Another example: If you have Grüneburgpark in Frankfurt and the Polizei just walk by knowing the “fixer” hangs out in there but they do absolutely nothing, you might not have the drug arrest statistic that a city like Dallas Texas has which would bust them. Enforcement of laws, creates statistics. Number of people prosecuted in Germany for Sodomy? http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/26/scotus.sodomy Dies wurde als Verfassungs wiedrig eingestuft, jedoch sassen Leute im Gefaehgniss weil sie anal oder oralverkehr hatten. Und schau her, fasst alle die vor Gericht landen wegen Sodomy wurden zusaetzlich mit “assault” verklagt.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/fact.html?record=1231 I find Homo’s disgusting and frankly I do believe they will all end in hell. Nonetheless, one of their advocate sites clearly depicts the difference between the US and Germany. Most Sodomy laws have been struck down, but in Texas even in 2003 they basically had laws on the book that made being a homosexual or lesbian basically a crime. In fact, engaging in oral or anal sex in your own home could be prosecuted if for example your wife was upset and ran to the Police and accused you of having sodomized her (Happened for real). The husband went to jail despite the act having been “consensual” at the time and the wife regretting and wanting to drop the charges did not stop the events which led to a husband being incarcerated several years ago on sodomy charges.

I’m not stating that the German justice system will not prosecute those at the soccer game. What I’m stating is that the statistical comparisons are largely bullshit. The laws are different, the entire legal system is different (except Louisiana), the enforcement of the laws is different, and the definitions of what these things mean is in many instances not even the same. But that’s just my opionion.


84 posted on 06/25/2006 8:03:16 PM PDT by Red6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson