Women bishops and gays ? That's the church for me

Times Online ^ | June 22, 2006 | Mary Ann Sieghart

[beaversmom]

What do I have to do to join the American Episcopal Church? It sounds great now that it has a woman, the Bishop of Nevada, the Rt Rev Katharine Jefferts Schori, in charge and an openly gay bishop in Gene Robinson. That, for me, encapsulates all the best Christian virtues of tolerance, diversity and acceptance.

A woman at the head of a Church! Who would have thought it? All we need now is a female Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Oh, and a President too, but that may not take too long either.

I may cheer, yet all the talk of schism in the Anglican Communion rests on the premise that what the Americans have been doing is unacceptable. In fact, there are plenty of us who think it is wholly admirable. It’s just that we tend to be less vocal and less harsh in our language than the conservatives.

Here is the conservative Bishop of Pittsburgh, for instance, who said this week: “For the Anglican Communion worldwide, this election reveals the continuing insensitivity and disregard of the Episcopal Church for the present dynamics of our global fellowship.”

The idea that electing a woman is provocative is highly insulting to those of us with XX chromosomes. How would men feel if we refused to accept their authority, if we begged the Archbishop of Canterbury to be our leader instead because she (yes, doesn’t that sound odd?) didn’t have a beard?

You have only to look at it that way round to see how insensitive, how deeply unChristian, such views sound.

And, yes, I know it’s not exactly the same for gays, as there is some scripture in the Old Testament (though not in Christ’s teachings) that forbids homosexuality. Yet there is some pretty rum stuff in the Old Testament, Leviticus in particular.

Are women still to be deemed “unclean”, “impure” and untouchable for seven days in every month? Are priests with a physical disability to be banned? After all, God instructed Moses to tell Aaron: “No man among your descendants for all time who has any physical defect is to come and present the food of his God. No man with a defect is to come, whether a blind man, a lame man, a man stunted or overgrown, a man deformed in foot or hand, or with misshapen brows or a film over his eye or a discharge from it, a man who has a scab or eruption or has had a testicle ruptured.”

I bet there is a bishop or two in the Anglican Communion with misshapen brows or filmy eyes.

Leviticus also prohibits tattoos, beards with the edges shaved, and garments woven with two kinds of yarn. That puts paid to polycotton vestments then. We should not eat meat that has any blood in it, or any meat from camels, rock-badgers, hares or pigs. Shellfish are out too, but locusts are fine.

It is all very well for conservatives to say that we liberals cannot pick and choose what teachings we follow from the Bible. But they do the same. How many of them abjure prawn cocktails? Do they refuse to take out a mortgage or put money on deposit because of the injunction against usury? Do they wear no clothes with added Lycra?

Many thousands of years since Leviticus was written, we live our lives very differently. We are no longer nomadic tribesmen, herding our sheep, goats and camels. What should endure from the Bible are the eternal messages, those that can apply to all societies at all times.

We no longer make burnt offerings of oxen to the Lord. But we can all still try to love our neighbours as ourselves. And that fundamental stricture should apply whether our neighbour is male or female, gay or straight — even if he has misshapen eyebrows.

[USMMA_83]

Strange times.... A misshapen eyebrow and homosexual lifestyle are on par with each other. Strange times indeed. I'm so out-of-step with our culture.

[goldstategop]

A non-judgmental church that's the very epitome of political correctness. One in which that rare God fearing liberal can feel right at home.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

[kb2614]

The ideal church for Mary would be named The First Church of Make Crap Up. Her version of the Bible would be 3 pages long.

[pettifogger]

.

[dawn53]

And, yes, I know it’s not exactly the same for gays, as there is some scripture in the Old Testament (though not in Christ’s teachings) that forbids homosexuality.

Guess she never read Romans.

[Mad Dawg]

We no longer make burnt offerings of oxen to the Lord.

Too true. Now people like this author sacrifice not oxen but unborn children. Molech rules! Kewel.!

Of course, this lady is clueless. Like so many liberals she doesn't know that even if there weren't the Pauline writings against homosexual behavior, there would still be millenia of exigesis and interpretation distinguishing ceremonial law from moral law.

But that would invovle actually studying the matter instead of making a living publishing material that would go better in a freshman all night bull session at an undistinguished college.

I was bemused to have my younger borther explianing to me that in his church the "myth" had been abandoned and that the pure teaching of Jesus was what they focussed on. Evidently it escaped his attention that from, say, 35 AD on Who Jesus was and what He Did was considered far more important that what He said. We're just so blessed to have people 1800 years after the event to explain to us that up until they came along nobody else really understood it properly.

[SkyPilot]

And, yes, I know it’s not exactly the same for gays, as there is some scripture in the Old Testament (though not in Christ’s teachings) that forbids homosexuality.

To try to educate this woman - the condemnation of homosexuality is also in the book of Romans, which is New Testament.

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

To put an even finer point on it, the book of 1 Corinthians spell this out:

4) 1 Cor. 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Just in case she missed it, here it is again in the book of Timothy (again, New Testament):

1 Tim. 1:9-10 - "We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts (perverts is the word for Homosexual offenders), for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

Moreover, God and Jesus are One. That is Christianity 101. The God of the Old Testament is the God of the New. To say that Christ was some offshoot from God who never "taught" about forbidding homosexuality is supreme ignorance. This woman should read about what Christ taught about sin - all sin, of which homosexuality is sin.

Alas - this is a common straw dog that the left repeats time and time again.

They don't accept Christ, but they like to try to stand behind Him if they think they can manipulate Him.

[xzins]

This woman is ignorant of Christianity.

Were she speaking to a Jewish audience about not eating shrimp, then her words about following the OT dietary laws would make sense.

Those laws, however, were SPECIFICALLY voided by Divine decision for Christians. This is found in the book of Acts, a central text detailing early Church history. It was affirmed by the Council of Jerusalem. The letters of St Paul are chock full of discussion of it in one form or another.

The only way to be ignorant of Acts is if one is totally ignorant of Christianity.

[elcid1970]

What a typical liberal dingbat! The kind that in the aftermath of a particularily hideous murder will intone,

"I think we should hear his side of the matter before we make up our minds."

[USMMA_83]

I've gone blind...I can't read what you've written...help!!!

[rockabyebaby]

I'm totally disgusted with this nonsense.......

[rlmorel]

This editorial epitomizes EVERYTHING that is wrong with the liberal way of looking at things. To liberals, nothing is about facts or reality. Everything is about gender, sexual preference, and race. Everything.

[Sybeck1]

It's a social club, not a church.

[sgtbono2002]

She should join fast its going to need her as real Christians drop out.

[Vanders9]

Supermarket religion. Pick your own beliefs based on what YOU think it should be. "I'll have two pounds of equality and four ounces of freedom please. What's that? Sacrifice? Condemnation of wrong-doing? Ooh I dont know about that...Yes I'll take the 'Thou shalt not murder' but can I have an abortion proviso with that?"

This is what happens when you elevate selected aspects of Christianity above all others.
And the fact that conservative Christians occasionally do the same thing with other teachings in no way justifies it.

[carumba]

The First Church of Make Crap Up. Her version of the Bible would be 3 pages long.

It could get lengthy if they translate it without the pronouns 'he, she, his, her, etc.' That is if they use some lame verbiage to dance around who the Son of God was and who was the mother and Father.

[Kakaze]

" It's a social club, not a church "

Everyone of them I've been too is a social club. A place to be "seen" and show off your wealth. A place where those who actually work in church programs are so often obsessed that everyone notice them and not their work.

I decided they can have their clubs and cafeteria church doctrine. God and I get along just fine without all the organised theatrics.

[George W. Bush]

The concept of the New Covenant in Christ seems to have entirely eluded the writer, despite her negligible disclaimer before launching into her rant against ancient scripture.

I suppose the unchurched and the atheist faction find such ravings relevant. But Christians will be left scratching their heads, wondering what the woman is on about.

[JohnnyZ]

What do I have to do to join the American Episcopal Church?

Isn't that the point? The people who would want to join are the people who would never actually want to participate in a real church.