Posted on 06/20/2006 4:35:44 AM PDT by pageonetoo
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.
Delegates to the national assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted yesterday to "receive" a policy paper on sex-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. Church officials are enabled to propose "experimental liturgies" with "alternative phrasings" for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.
Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," options include:
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love"
"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chairman Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during yesterday's debate on the changes.
The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to send the paper back for further study, which would have killed it.
A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity still should be used, but Presbyterians should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."..
(Excerpt) Read more at insider.washingtontimes.com ...
Wrong denomination.
Yes, God is in complete control - Satan is proud & thinks he has the upper hand. God will have the last laugh!
BTW, my father was a Presbyterian minister for almost 30 years in NC. He retired in 1975 and died in 1978, but I am sure that he is rolling over in his grave now at what is going on in the PCUSA. The local church member does not always know what is happening in the denomination at large, but I realized that the PCUSA had left me almost 20 years ago when GHW Bush was running against Dukakis. I received a copy of "The Presbyterian Survey" which had both of the platforms of the candidates, as well as the position of the PCUSA on the same issues. The positions of Dukakis and the PCUSA were nearly identical! I decided that, although I had been brought up in that denomination, I could no longer support it. I am now a Methodist, a denomination which receives quite a bit of criticism on this blog, but which is, in the south at least, still pretty conservative. At least, we still have "Onward Christian Soldiers" and "Faith of Our Fathers" in the Methodist hymnal!
Prolly so - I think I was channeling Peace MoonBeam when I wrote that...
Perhaps if you had stayed and fought, and others joined you, the denomination wouldn't be in this mess.
Well I've never read that one in the Bible...Oh that's right...These whacked out religions don't need no stinkin' Bible...They make it us as they go along...
Moe, Larry & Curly?
PCAUSA members get out of your church, now! This is a result of rationalism and liberalism which has taken over almost all large, mainline churches. You cannot be saved by baptism in the name of the "Mother, Child and Womb." Get out now!
Rationalism and liberalism has taken over most mainline, large churches, my church body included. Mine is usually about 20 years behind the rest.
2Timothy 3:1 -- But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these {men} also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.
2Tim 3:13 But evil men and impostors will proceed {from bad} to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but {wanting} to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Some don't cut and run, some stay and fight. When it's time to leave, the faithful will leave. But not on the urging of those outside our denomination.
Good 1
Note: PCUSA did not adopt this form. They simply agreed to listen to the idea of allowing the changing of the language. The whole denomination has to vote on changing the language.
Presbyterians are always reluctant to tell their member churches how to behave.
[The best explanation I have ever heard about the Trinity is based on the three states of matter. Water is a good example because we are all familiar with water at RT (liquid), ice (solid), and steam (gas).]
I am going to use that. I had never heard it.
I am Catholic and have problems with the leadership in my church as well. Like a good conservative, I remain loyal while actively trying to improve that which I am committed to. The Catholic church, like a tower in Italy began to lean as John Paul aged back in the late 80s.
It is interesting to compare and contrast.
To many/most, Allah has matured/evolved into a fire breathing beast that directs his followers to torture and murder those that do not believe in him while securing power and spewing propoganda. To his followers that murder in his name, hundreds of slutty virgins await their arrival in the afterlife.
Christians now have this fuzzy cumbaya image of Christ. I guess we had our violent historical evolutionary understanding (Crusades).
Ah. Well here's my phrasing change...Until now I referred to them as 'heretics', but I think I'll tweak that just a tad and hereafter call them 'damned heretics'.
Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Luke 12:10
But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
Don't forget the classic:
Tom, Dick & Harry!
I left the Presbyterian Church when they told me I needed to be a good Christian and turn in all my guns!
Well don't tell the H.S. about his name change. He could pull down the wrath of you know who.
As a Catholic dealing with the sometimes inexplicable reasoning with the current crop of US bishops, I can sympathize with your position on this.
Best of luck with your fight for orthodoxy.
I personally think that it is Satan working as fast as he can in as many churches that will go along with him. I am grateful that I am in a PCA church
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