Posted on 06/17/2006 11:21:32 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
WASHINGTON - Buoyed by the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, U.S. government officials hope the exposure of his radical network through hundreds of raids across Iraq will help them eliminate key tentacles of the amorphous al-Qaida organization.
These officials say the raids have led to solid insights into al-Qaida in Iraq and provided new clues about how the group trades information with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida central.
They also are learning who is connected to whom and how external support is funneled through Iraq from across the Middle East, including Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iran.
Several officials requested anonymity while the investigations were unfolding.
In a press conference in Baghdad, Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said Thursday that 452 U.S. and coalition raids had been conducted since al-Zarqawi was killed June 7. The information is mounting: Military and other investigators are collecting documents, computers, weapons and DNA.
The work comes at a time when al-Qaida in Iraq is in flux as it adjusts to operating without its charismatic leader. U.S., Iraqi and coalition forces are hoping to seize the opportunity to unravel al-Qaida's complicated web.
Officials are also working to understand the group's purported new leader and whether he has the connections and credibility to assume al-Zarqawi's iconic role.
The enthusiasm of President Bush and other senior officials is tempered by the knowledge that al-Zarqawi's death crimps but hardly kills his organization. Authorities also are watching to see if al-Zarqawi's wish-for martyrdom attracts more fighters into the jihadist fold.
The U.S. military has identified an Egyptian, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, who is believed to also use the name Abu Hamza al-Mujaher, as al-Zarqawi's successor in Iraq and presumably in operations beyond.
The president's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, has cautioned against jumping to conclusions while the organization is adrift.
If in fact the new leader is al-Masri, authorities are only in the early stages of figuring out what he will mean for al-Qaida.
Al-Masri, whose name means "the Egyptian," is a former member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad. He has long-standing ties to al-Qaida's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri. Al-Masri has been fighting in Iraq since at least 2003 and engaged in the battle of Fallujah in 2004.
Al-Zarqawi, a Sunni Muslim, was known for his gruesome attacks Iraq's Shiite population — a tactic that put him at odds with al-Qaida's central leadership. But al-Masri could be more receptive to guidance from Afghan-Pakistani border, given his long-standing ties to al-Zawahri, a fellow Egyptian.
Early estimates do not predict significant change in Iraq. "We think he will probably continue on with the same tactics and techniques that Zarqawi did," Caldwell said.
Al-Masri was the point man for getting foreign fighters into Iraq. It was a critical position that would have allowed him to build relationships with numerous foreign contacts.
It remains to be seen how he will oversee the loose network outside of Iraq that al-Zarqawi established. The 39-year-old was believed to have links to radicals in more than 40 countries on at least five continents.
U.S. officials said the bulk of al-Zarqawi's reach outside of Iraq was centered in his home of Jordan, which was his primary target outside Iraq. Lesser extensions included his operatives in Europe, where he was believed to have just a handful.
At a Senate hearing Tuesday, retired Vice Adm. John Scott Redd, head of the National Counterterrorism Center, could not say for certain how many fighters have been trained by al-Zarqawi and may have returned to their home countries; some estimates suggest they could number in the low hundreds.
Redd said authorities have indications of plots "at least hatching" outside Iraq. "And some of those may have been far enough that we'll see them," he said.
In many ways, those plots typify the new al-Qaida, which has evolved from a centralized group rooted in Afghanistan to an amorphous ideology dispersed worldwide.
During a speech in April, Gen. Michael Hayden, the newly appointed CIA director, said the war in Iraq motivates jihadists, but their failure there would weaken the movement globally.
"The loss of key leaders like bin Laden, Zawahri and Zarqawi — especially if they were lost in rapid succession — could cause the jihadist movement to fracture even more into smaller groups, and would probably lead to strains and disagreements," said Hayden, who at the time was the No. 2 U.S. intelligence official.
Are you afraid to provide the entire quote ?
"Which quote?"
Your partial quote from your post 27 where you say ...
"and pretty much wherever Muslims believe their religion tells them to:
"Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
Qur'an, Sura 9:5
Your provision of false or incomplete "quotes" to further your position is really poor technique ... why do you persist in doing that ?
"Sorry if our victory will be accomplished without the worldwide slaughter or conversion by the sword that you seem to prefer, but that's life."
LOL! You slay me. Pun intended.
MUSLIMS ARE FIRST AND FOREMOST THE BIGGEST VICTIMS OF ISLAM! MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS MORE MUSLIMS IN IRAQ IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS THAN HAVE THE COALITION MILITARY.
Zarqawi planned to start a civil war between shia and sunni...if there's any massive killing of muslims to be done, leave it to the mohammadans!
Haddith again ?
But to answer your question ... Who knows ? Who cares ? Christianity threatens you with eternal damnation if you reject Christ ... seems a bit more heavy-handed then death ...
In cany case just what does that have to do with spiritual power ?
Do you seriously think you can use physical force to make someone believe in a religion ?
"Zarqawi planned to start a civil war between shia and sunni...if there's any massive killing of muslims to be done, leave it to the mohammadans! "
I thought that was against the Koran .... But Zarqawi probably found some cleric who found some haddith that said it was OK ...
"Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
Qur'an, Sura 9:5
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Fighting
http://prophetofdoom.net/
Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”
Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”
Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”
Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”
Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”
Ishaq:326 “Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth.”
Bukhari:V4B52N63 “A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, ‘Allah’s Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?’ The Prophet said, ‘Embrace Islam first and then fight.’ So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A Little work, but a great reward.’”
Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
Muslim:C34B20N4668 “The Messenger said: ‘Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights.”
Qur’an:9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”
Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an:8:72 “Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them—these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so.” [Another translation reads:] “You are only called to protect Muslims who fight.”
Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.’”
Qur’an:8:73 “The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah’s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid—these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).”
Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.”
Qur’an:48:16 “Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ‘You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.”
Qur’an:48:22 “If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah.”
Qur’an:47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”
Qur’an:47:31 “And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters.”
Tabari VI:138 “Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting.”
Tabari VI:139 “Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse ‘And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.’”
Qur’an:9:19 “Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah’s Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah.”
Ishaq:550 “The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling.”
Qur’an:5:94 “Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment.”
Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.”
Tabari IX:22 “The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly.”
Tabari IX:25 “By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta’if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant.”
Tabari IX:82 “The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”
Tabari IX:88 “Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah’s Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger’s command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them.”
Ishaq:530 “Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends.”
Muslim:C9B1N29 “Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: ‘I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.’ Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat.”
Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’”
Muslim:C10B1N176 “Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: ‘There is no god but Allah,’ but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: ‘Did he profess “There is no god but Allah,” and even then you killed him?’ I said: ‘He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.’ The Prophet said: ‘Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?’”
Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.’”
Muslim:C28B20N4628 “Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty.”
Muslim:C28B20N4629 “The Messenger said: ‘One who is wounded in the Way of Allah—and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way—will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.’”
Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 “The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: ‘Who is the best of men?’ He replied: ‘A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah’s Cause.’”
Muslim:C42B20N4684 “A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: ‘Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?’ The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.’”
Muslim:C53B20N4717 “The Prophet said: ‘This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N288 “I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, ‘We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.’ I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him.”
Bukhari:V5B59N290 “The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward.”
Qur’an:2:193 “Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.”
Qur’an:2:217 “They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: ‘Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause have the hope of Allah’s mercy.”
Qur’an:2:244 “Fight in Allah’s Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all.”
Qur’an:2:246 “He said: ‘Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?’ They said: ‘How could we refuse to fight in Allah’s Cause?’”
Ishaq:280 “The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah’s command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah commanded him to fight.”
Qur’an:61:2 “O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”
Bukhari:V4B52N61 “Allah’s Apostle! We were absent from the first battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight.”
Ishaq:398 “Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage.”
Qur’an:3:146 “How many prophets fought in Allah’s Cause? With them (fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s Cause, nor did they weaken nor give in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors].”
Ishaq:393 “How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast.”
Qur’an:3:153 “Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you.”
Qur’an:3:154 “Say: ‘Even if you had remained in your houses, those ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where they were to slain.”
Ishaq:440 “Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad’s foes. The Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword.”
Ishaq:470 “We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls.”
Qur’an:61:4 “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.”
Qur’an:61:11 “Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah’s Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!” Qur’an 61:12 “He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies.”
Qur’an:8:5 “Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting).”
Qur’an:24:53 “They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth fighting in Allah’s Cause). Say: ‘Swear not; Obedience is (more) reasonable.’”
Qur’an:4:74 “Let those who fight in Allah’s Cause sell this world’s life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah’s Cause, whether he is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward.”
Qur’an:4:75 “What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah’s Cause?” [Another translation says:] “What is wrong with you that you do not fight for Allah?”
Qur’an:4:76 “Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah.”
Qur’an:4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
Qur’an:4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
Qur’an:4:84 “Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah’s Cause. Incite the believers to fight with you.”
Qur’an:4:94 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah’s Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!’ Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty.”
Qur’an:4:95 “Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward.”
Qur’an:4:100 “He who leaves his home in Allah’s Cause finds abundant resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are your enemy.”
Qur’an:4:102 “When you (Prophet) lead them in prayer, let some stand with you, taking their arms with them. When they finish their prostrations, let them take positions in the rear. And let others who have not yet prayed come—taking all precaution, and bearing arms. The Infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you in a rush. But there is no blame on you if you put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill; but take precaution. For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment.”
Qur’an:4:104 “And do not relent in pursuing the enemy.”
"Christianity threatens you with eternal damnation if you reject Christ .."
Now that's really scary!
And where does it say that? (PS. I might be Jewish.)
"I thought that was against the Koran .... But Zarqawi probably found some cleric who found some haddith that said it was OK ..."
see #45 there's lots to choose from.
LOL - You didn't bother to read your post did you ?
The second "quote" is the SAME selectivly ediited one you posted before.
I suppose you got the list from your same source ?
... The Koran according to the prophetofdoom ?
Since you do have access to the complete and unedited Koran, perhaps you can go through your list and leave out the edited ones ?
Since you seem to like it -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation
Just a follow up -
Dosen't it bother you in the least that in order for your source to attempt to prove it's points it has to provide false,edited and missleading "quotes" ?
Isn't that kind of Michael Morre-ish ?
"Since you do have access to the complete and unedited Koran, perhaps you can go through your list and leave out the edited ones ?"
No. It's up to you. You continue to maintain that all translations from arabic are suspect. That arabic is (for some reason I cannot fathom) UNTRANSLATABLE.
Difficult yes, but not IMPOSSIBLE. The difficulties are touched upon in this article. The difficulties are a matter of VOCABULARY.
(SNIPPED)
AMIR TAHERI'S REMARKS AT DEBATE "ISLAM IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRACY"
by Amir Taheri
Benador Online
May 19, 2004
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am glad that this debate takes place in English.
Because, were it to be conducted in any of the languages of our part of the world, we would not have possessed the vocabulary needed.
To understand a civilisation it is important to understand its vocabulary.
If it was not on their tongues it is likely that it was not on their minds either.
There was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s. Even then the Greek word democracy entered Muslim languages with little change: democrasi in Persian, dimokraytiyah in Arabic, demokratio in Turkish.
Democracy as the proverbial schoolboy would know is based on one fundamental principle: equality.
The Greek word for equal isos is used in more than 200 compound nouns; including isoteos (equality) and Isologia (equal or free speech) and isonomia (equal treatment).
But again we find no equivalent in any of the Muslim languages. The words we have such as barabari in Persian and sawiyah in Arabic mean juxtaposition or levelling.
Nor do we have a word for politics.
The word siassah, now used as a synonym for politics, initially meant whipping stray camels into line.( Sa'es al-kheil is a person who brings back lost camels to the caravan. )The closest translation may be: regimentation.
Nor is there mention of such words as government and the state in the Koran.
It is no accident that early Muslims translated numerous ancient Greek texts but never those related to political matters. The great Avicenna himself translated Aristotle's Poetics. But there was no translation of Aristotle's Politics in Persian until 1963.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=4462
You wrote: "The second "quote" is the SAME selectivly ediited one you posted before."
How THICK are you?
Translate WAR AND PEACE from its original language into English, French, Spanish, Greek etc...it's still the same novel although the WORDS ARE NOT IN EXACTLY THE SAME ORDER.
Methinks your problem is you are angry the koran WAS TRANSLATED AT ALL! (Haha! Removed its 'mystery', did it?)
Now, I'm happy to wait for your 'proper' translation. Have at it.
"Since you seem to like it -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation"
I was hoping you might point out to me the chapter and verse relating to damnation in the New Testament. I imagine it might be there somewhere...but a source is always appreciated.
"Dosen't it bother you in the least that in order for your source to attempt to prove it's points it has to provide false,edited and missleading "quotes" ?"
'False, edited and missleading quotes' ARE YOUR CONTENTION. The whole world is trying to fathom where it all went wrong...was it right from the beginning from the mouth of mohammad or was the evil inserted as time went by:
http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/02/03/1bkk/04b.html
SCHOLARS SCRUTINIZE THE KORAN'S ORIGIN:
SNIPPED.
"Between fear and political correctness, it's not possible to say anything other than sugary nonsense about Islam," said one scholar at an American university who asked not to be named, referring to the threatened violence as well as the widespread reluctance on United States college campuses to criticize other cultures.
While scriptural interpretation may seem like a remote and innocuous activity, close textual study of Jewish and Christian scripture played no small role in loosening the Church's domination on the intellectual and cultural life of Europe, and paving the way for unfettered secular thought. "The Muslims have the benefit of hindsight of the European experience, and they know very well that once you start questioning the holy scriptures, you don't know where it will stop," the scholar explained.
The touchiness about questioning the Koran predates the latest rise of Islamic militancy. As long ago as 1977, John Wansbrough of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London wrote that subjecting the Koran to "analysis by the instruments and techniques of biblical criticism is virtually unknown."
Mr. Wansbrough insisted that the text of the Koran appeared to be a composite of different voices or texts compiled over dozens if not hundreds of years. After all, scholars agree that there is no evidence of the Koran until 691 — 59 years after Muhammad's death — when the Dome of the Rock mosque in Jerusalem was built, carrying several Koranic inscriptions.
These inscriptions differ to some degree from the version of the Koran that has been handed down through the centuries, suggesting, scholars say, that the Koran may have still been evolving in the last decade of the seventh century. Moreover, much of what we know as Islam — the lives and sayings of the Prophet — is based on texts from between 130 and 300 years after Muhammad's death.
ISLAM, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!
"No. It's up to you. You continue to maintain that all translations from arabic are suspect. "
Sorry, it's not a matter of translation - unless of course you expect me to believe that the writer of theprophetofdoom website did his own translation ...
It's your source that is faulty ...
Affectionately known as "ABU AYYUB NEXT",To US Special Forces
"'False, edited and missleading quotes' ARE YOUR CONTENTION."
Not a contention - your source supplies "quotes" that ARE edited, when compared to ANY other accepted translation of the Koran.
You insist on using them as supporting points when you KNOW this is true - We've been down this road before.
when compared to ANY other accepted translation
BRING OUT YOUR SOURCES!
"It's your source that is faulty ..."
I WILL LET THE MAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF:
http://prophetofdoom.net/article.aspx?g=401&i=40001
(snipped)
As for the “misquoted” allegation, we have provided you with a parallel copy of the five Qur’an translations that were used to write Prophet of Doom. These represent the five most universally acclaimed Muslim translations, from the most literal (the Noble Qur’an) to the most contemporary (Ahmed Ali). Five were required because there are many missing and meaningless words in Allah’s book. By using the five most accepted Islamic renditions of the Qur’an we provide a consensus as to what the foremost paleo-Arabic scholars propose Muhammad claimed Allah was trying to say.
In addition to this online collection of five Qur’ans, we have added the POD Qur’an to the site so that you can set them side by side to verify for yourself that we have presented the Qur’an comprehensively and accurately. However, the best way to understand Islam is to read Prophet of Doom, since it presents the Qur’an chronologically, in the order it was revealed, and in the context of Muhammad’s life as it is evidenced in the Sira, Ta’rikh, and Hadith.
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And don't forget, there's also the link to the free pdf on my bio page...if you are interested in the historical mohammad. The source notes are from the arabic and ancient greek in their original.
"BRING OUT YOUR SOURCES!"
Google "Koran", pick any translation listing and lookup Sura 9:5 that you have "quoted" here twice. EVERY one of them will show what your chosen source has left out in order to misslead.
Perhaps the truth will have more impact when you find it yourself.
"We've been down this road before."
It's a one-way street and a dead end. I supply all the info, the links, the sources...and you remain critical of everything. The whole world is wrong. It's all a terrible conspiracy, a plot to make islam look bad. LOL!
bye bye and farewell.
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