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This account still doesn't make me feel comfortable with what happened. Is this how war is? They go into a house and "clear" it because a marine saw " insurgent age men" run away and enter a house. Trust me I am not anti war or anti military. My own son will be going back to Iraq in the fall. Someone please help me understand why this is acceptable military action.

same SOP as in Fallujah as far as I can tell,, they were under ambush attack as far as they could tell,, if they had had an M1 tank they would have blasted the house in a million pieces and come out with the same result

what happened to the stories of lining people up making them kneel and blowing them away at point blank range?

Is this how war is?

Yes. Bad things happen in war.

Unlike our cops in the US, the Marine sop allows firing on those who run away once ordered to stop. They can also chase them down.

Shots came from a house they quickly cleared and unfortunately some innocents were killed.

It is not the Marines fault that Baathist irregulars use the local civilian population for cover.

If Cpl Wuterich's version of events is essentially accurate, I expect our side to ream the likes of Murtha, Kerry, the Beast, old media, and the original purveyors of the lie. Several Marines careers have been destroyed and members of the squad are awaiting possible indictments. Our men are asked to do the near impossible every day, they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

keep in mind that it is likely the insurgents
had an escape route planned in advance,
going thru several houses,
in effect using the residents of those houses
as human shields,
giving the marines a difficult choice to make.

This account still doesn't make me feel comfortable with what happened. Is this how war is? They go into a house and "clear" it because a marine saw " insurgent age men" run away and enter a house.

I'd rather chase them down and kill them while they're off balance than to let them regroup to attack and kill again later. It is terrible innocents may have died, but I refuse to believe that our Marines lined up and executed them until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that it did occur.

Thank you to you and your son. You for raising a fine young Marine and your son for serving.

War is hell. Bad things happen. People get killed. This is not a video game. Better them than us.

We better hope and pray political correctness stops soon or a lot more of ours will be killed. It appears as though it is better to die than to go against "PC"

What a sorry state of affairs.

the accounts above - like any attempt at description using human language - is a poor simile for the almost instantaneous decision making that must be had, even in the midst of the greatest chaos. So many factors; observation, quick self-check - hopefully with input from other squad/platoon members who observed the same acts and can confirm - to ensure that you saw what you think you saw --- in this case a bunch of insurgent-capables entering a house. Are they hostile? Are they scared? We've just been attacked, is there another IED just around the corner? Is the IED intended to stop our progress, force us to deploy, thus opening the possibility of ambush/outflank from nearby houses? Wait! were those shots fired at us from that house over there?? That house has to be cleared NOW, else more shots can be fired at MY MEN. I've got to protect MY MEN...

So many decisions, so much chaos, an enemy with no scruples (hides in his women's clothing, in his house of worship, behind women and children... all so that we don't fire back and so that he may fire at us with impunity)... and so many critical decisions to be made in all this madness. And after, the post-op analysis... did the op go as planned? Did the enemy show any new wrinkles? Was intel confirmed?

How did MY MEN handle themselves? With Honor, as is expected from the American Fighting Man?

This last question may be the most important, for it implies the moral high ground we strive to maintain itself is under a degree of threat each time a squad goes out on patrol. Like a long-time marriage where it seems the partners can know each others thoughts and commonly can finish each others sentences, our military are proficient enough to know the difference between casualties of war that are unavoidable; ie, "collateral damage", and - God Forbid - between an act of brutality such as our Marines in Haditha have been impugned with.

Now repeat the above, ma'am, every day, sometimes multiple times per day, and repeat it for the last year or so that our Best & Brightest (... and Toughest!) have been deployed in Sunni Triangle towns such as haditha.

God Bless & Save our Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Coast Guardsmen & Airmen...

CGVet58

Take a look at the movies of the Falluja clearing--that's exactly what they do and what they have to do to stay alive. Once Marines or soldiers catch fire from a particular hose and enter it they haven't any idea of what and who are in there. If they hear sounds of human movement in a particular room they have to assume it's terrorists behind that door; otherwise once they go past that room the terrorists could come out and shoot them in the back. "Noncombatants" who are used this way necessarily become combatants. The Marines did what they had to do and more power to them.

You need to place the moral onus where it belongs--on the terrorists for using noncombatants this way and causing them to fall into harm's way.

Unless I miss my guess, and please do not think I am in any sense critical when I say this, nearly everything you know about war comes from one form or another of fiction.

Trust me when I say this; that loving, sweet, caring vet in your life is not going to pass on their burden to you by telling you what they had to do.

"This account still doesn't make me feel comfortable with what happened. Is this how war is?"

The only war I "fought" was as a technician in a SATCOM terminal, but from everything I've read and heard from people who have been there and done that, yes, this is how war is. No, it's not comfortable. As one general, who very well knew what he was about said: "War is Hell."

These guys were under stress, as Murtha said, and they responded to that stress lethally, but unlike he claimed, not murderously. They cleared two small houses (quite probably by killing everyone in them) then stopped when it became apparent that they weren't finding the people they expected to find. Grenades do not care how old you are, or if you have a weapon or not. I'll bet it took, at most, three or four minutes to clear both houses. From my very limited experience in training scenarios, three minutes is nearly forever...

All: anyone with combat experience of this type care to comment?

Reported US Military Deaths in Haditha, Iraq

Apr 3, 2003 Haditha
US Captain Russell Brian Rippetoe SW of Haditha Dam - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide bomber
US Specialist Ryan Patrick Long SW of Haditha Dam - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide bomber
US Staff Sergeant Nino Dugue Livaudais SW of Haditha Dam - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide bomber

May 26, 2003 Haditha
US Major Matthew E. Schram Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire

Nov. 29, 2003 Haditha
US Staff Sergeant Stephen A. Bertolino Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - ambush
US Specialist Aaron J. Sissel Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - ambush
US Sergeant Jesse W. Strong Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack
US Lance Corporal Karl R. Linn Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack
US Corporal Jonathan W. Bowling Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack

May 7, 2005 Haditha
US Sergeant Michael A. Marzano Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide car bomb
US Sergeant Aaron N. Cepeda Sr. Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide car bomb
US Lance Corporal Lance Tanner Graham Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide car bomb
US Petty Officer 3rd Class Jeffery L. Wiener Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - suicide car bomb

May 25,2005 Haditha
US Sergeant David Neil Wimberg Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire

May 26,2005 Haditha
US Major Ricardo A. Crocker Hadithah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack

Aug 1, 2005 Haditha
US Lance Corporal Roger D. Castleberry Jr. Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Sergeant David J. Coullard Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Lance Corporal Daniel Nathan Deyarmin Jr. Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Corporal Jeffrey A. Boskovitch Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Lance Corporal Brian P. Montgomery Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Sergeant Nathaniel S. Rock Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire

Aug 3, 2005 Haditha
US Lance Corporal Adam J. Strain Ramadi - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - small arms fire
US Specialist Mathew V. Gibbs Baghdad (southwest part) Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Sergeant 1st Class Charles Houghton Warren Baghdad (southwest part) Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Specialist Jerry Lewis Ganey Jr. Baghdad (southwest part) Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Lance Corporal Nicholas William B. Bloem Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Corporal David S. Stewart Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Sergeant Bradley J. Harper Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Kevin G. Waruinge Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Grant B. Fraser Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Sergeant Justin F. Hoffman Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Eric J. Bernholtz Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Aaron H. Reed Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Corporal David Kenneth J. Kreuter Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal William Brett Wightman Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Christopher Jenkins Dyer Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Michael J. Cifuentes Haditha (2 km S of) -Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Timothy Michael Bell Jr. Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack
US Lance Corporal Edward August Schroeder II Haditha (2 km S of) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

Nov. 16, 2005 Haditha
US Sergeant Jeremy E. Murray Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

Nov 19, 2006 Haditha
US Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas Haditha (near) - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

Ansar al-Sunnah Provides Video of Haditha Battle with U.S. Marines

Reported US Military Deaths in Haditha, Iraq