Posted on 06/05/2006 12:58:57 PM PDT by bray
Never in the histoir of the Conservative Movement have we seen the emotion and vitriol we have witnessing with the Border Issue. This has become an issue that is not being disgusted with logic and open debate but pure emotion. Yes we all want the border sealed and most of us want a wall and more border patrols to eliminate the numbers of criminal Mexicans crossing but what to do with the millions that are here? There will be a wall over the heaviest crossing areas and natural desert for the remainder. The bigger wall that seems to be stopping most Conservatives is the Illegals who are working here. Unless you are for deportation you will get the rational “wish you would catch TB and die” retort so here goes.
When did we have an issue that you cannot even discuss due to the Border Wolfpack? There have been a few other issues but if you are a free thinker you basically are persona non grata round here. The problem is that these boards were invented so that issues could be discussed in a town hall forum with all sides sharing their views to hopefully get to a conclusion. This ideal has been thrown out the monitor to spew hatred a vitriol at anyone who does not agree with the Ivy League Conservatives. This has become an issue that reality has been suspended so that we can now virtually eliminate 10 million people with the passage of some magic bill.
Because of the border, Walk on Water Conservatives are now supporting increasing the Minimum Wage so that laborers are given a Living Wage. Since when have these been Conservative values? This is a new phenomenon that even Rush is spewing the elimination of a “permanent underclass”. The Living Wage argument sounds a lot like the Bourgeoisie exploiting the Proletariat to this Capitalist.
Now before the Borderline SS officers begin calling me a Country Club Conservative let me tell them I am a Bootstrap Conservative who has worked on farms and done most of those “slave” labor jobs putting myself through College to the point I am now working towards becoming a Country Clubber. My only hurdles to becoming a Country Club Republican are my first $Mil and a distaste for first and secondhand cigar smoke. Like they always say, the first Million is the toughest although I may never overcome smoking those dog turds.
My purpose here is as spokesman for small business which is the Super Charged Dodge Hemi that powers America. These people are afraid to speak up because they are the vilified in this debate. They are held in more contempt than the Illegals. My business is to buy goods from these producers who are having a tough time finding laborers to do their strenuous work. They hire Mexicans who may have false ID but they need to get someone to do the work. To protect themselves they buy insurance as protection from getting caught with Illegals. Without these workers they would literally have to close their businesses. They pay more than minimum wage but due to the strenuous nature of the work nobody wants to do it, even Illegals. One said today if the Mexicans were sent back he would have to close his business today. Are the Deportation Brigade willing to destroy entire industries over their position?
The bottom line is that we do have a number of industries that require low skill labor that needs workers to match those jobs. We are at full employment and a real shortage of good workers who will do these jobs and show up every day to work. Welfare recipients are in the cities and the type of people who receive these checks are not going to show up to work hard even if they could get to these jobs. So we need people who are flexible enough to migrate and take these jobs that are needing to get done. In addition many of these low tech jobs need high physical skills such as fruit picking or carpentry.
Raising wages for these jobs is not an option since the markets will not allow the prices of the goods to raise or these businesses will just move overseas where the really cheap labor & conditions exist. The solution is a permanent Guest Worker Plan where these workers never have the ability to become citizens. With the GW card we can trace their movements and fight against criminals entering the Country. A forge proof card would get a handle on the numbers of immigrants and help employers identify who was legal and who was not. Add to that a fence and we have the workers we want w/o the fraud that they are enjoying now. Nobody wants the DemocRat controlled Senate’s pathway to citizenship tsunami so after the House passes theirs we will see them eliminate the Kennedy/InSane bill in Committee.
There is a labor vacuum that Manuel Mexical fills and if anyone can explain how to replace him then we need to hear it. So far all we have heard is that we need to raise wages, do we pass a Federal Law for $20/hr minimum wage? When have Conservatives been for Federal control of wages? The other so called answer is to bring in legal immigrants or deport 11 million and then import 11 million, huh? The final beaut was that I catch and die from TB because I deserved it for supporting a permanent underclass. This was perhaps the more rational discussions in the last few months. Well since I don’t mingle with the permanent underclass that is highly unlikely as much as that Freeper would like. The low wages equals slavery is just a not so subtle racist charge mixed with a large dose Marxism.
Until there is a solution to this issue I will never support deportation. There is an answer to this problem but if we are not allowed to discuss it then that solution can never be realized. The Bordersharks only defeat their own cause due to their vitriol of this discussion. Their Stalinist tactics that we have seen here are only walling them off from the challenges and discussion of their demagoguery. Free speech is what makes this Country great and why Free Republic was formed. Unless we admit we have industries that need hard working Mexicans we will never reach Border Security. Until we have the courage to disgust the issue freely, we will never get it Right.
Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters
Enough braying
Here's some logic.
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html
Is it worth it?
So if it were up to you today what would you do to fix it?
Like I said Fence the Border and use the Guest Worker Program w/o Citizenship.
Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters
Close the border and THEN bray away.
This doesn't even make sense. If even illegals don't want to do the jobs, whose doing them? Well, at least you admit you have an agenda. I'm sorry, but I really don't want to pay my taxes to support illegal aliens so that you can become a country club republican.
susie
Placemark.
Some one else who thinks Mexicanization of the SW is just great as long as it holds unskilled wages down.
Secure the border first using any and all means at our disposal. Round up all illegal felons and those who have to date eluded deportation orders and ship them out.
Then we can discuss what to do with those that remain.
Despite claims to the contrary it does not need to be and shoud not be a comprehensive solution.
The feds have to prove to us they are willing and able to secure the border before they deserve any recognition from the peanut gallery.
| We are now one of the largest Spanish-speaking nations in the world. We're a major source of Latin music, journalism and culture. Just go to Miami, or San Antonio, Los Angeles, Chicago or West New York, New Jersey ... and close your eyes and listen. You could just as easily be in Santo Domingo or Santiago, or San Miguel de Allende. For years our nation has debated this change -- some have praised it and others have resented it. By nominating me, my party has made a choice to welcome the new America. As I speak, we are celebrating the success of democracy in Mexico. George Bush from a campaign speech in Miami, August 2000. |
Here is an excerpt of a good critique of that speech:
In equating our intimate historic bonds to our mother country and to Canada with our ties to Mexico, W. shows a staggering ignorance of the civilizational facts of life. The reason we are so close to Britain and Canada is that we share with them a common historical culture, language, literature, and legal system, as well as similar standards of behavior, expectations of public officials, and so on. My Bush Epiphany By Lawrence Auster
With all due respect I dont care whats in the best interest of small business owners (in this debate) or those that cite economic rationales. Of course its to your benefit! You dont care that the government (me) ultimately has to pick up the societal costs. You look at the ledger and pencil it out. You save thousands of dollars in labor costs. Me? I get to support your workers, their families , long after you've left this earth. I am the one left holding the poverty stricken, illiterate,non-assimilating, economic ,cultural deviding time bomb.
Your points are exactly right.
Pray for W and Our Amazing Troops
Border wolfpack? I always admired wolves, now I am part of the pack.
Excellent!
Guess he wants amnesty too along with his small business friends for breaking the law. We should all boohoo because they buy insurance in case they get caught. And they have the audacity to call us names who expect...oh I don't know... the laws to be enforced, names. Oh yeh there's a way to get intelligent debate all right. NOT!
Guess that bray and his lawbreaking friends should support the illegal invaders instead of having all of us who he calls names,and who have to pay taxes to subsidize his CHEAP LABOR woes!!
We Americans are sick and tired of subsidizing your greedy need for cheap labor!!
Um. Nazi reference. You lose. I stopped reading right there.
I suspect you probably made baseless charges of racism against border security/immigration reform advocates elsewhere in your vanity. That would be typical.
Calling fellow conservatives nazis (or SS officers) and implying racism is NOT a conservative value. It is a tactic of the leftists and it should not be tolerated here in inflammatory vanities like this. You may be able to formulate a legitimate point or two relative to this debate. But you lose everything when you insert this nazi reference crap and insinuate that conservatives who want our borders protected, our laws enforced and our Constitution upheld are somehow racist. I suggest you make the appropriate apologies and post your points in disagreement with the immigration reform/border security advocates in a more mature, less inflammatory manner. That way, someone might actually read the whole thing and debate you rationally instead of just wanting to punch you in the face because you called them a nazi.
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