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Right? Not Stossel
Vancouver 24 Hours ^ | June 2, 2006 | Irwin Loy

Posted on 06/04/2006 4:20:59 PM PDT by Lorianne

John Stossel thinks sweatshops are good for workers, while minimum wages hurt the poor.

Controversial? Sure. Just don't call him a Conservative.

"I'm a Libertarian," according to Stossel, the TV network consumer reporter turned staunch free-market defender. "I hold beliefs Conservatives abhor."

Speaking at a luncheon hosted by the conservative Fraser Institute think tank yesterday, Stossel made it clear his politics don't quite fall within the traditional left or right wing spectrum.

He takes no issue with gay marriage, for example, while he says sending troops to Iraq "wasn't a good idea." At the same time, lefties likely won't love his views on global warming - "Those environmental guys," Stossel said, "seem to be acting more like psychics than following the science."

But Stossel's contentious governments-are-bad preaching also extends to drug laws, which he says are causing harm.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: catoinstitute; drugskilledbelushi; knowyourleroy; libertarians; stossel; warondrugs; wod; wodlist
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To: muir_redwoods

So does Mill. However, Mill trailed off into socialism in the end because he would not recognize the need for institutions mediate between the individual and the state, not family, not church. Even the corporation has to be treated as an artificial institution.


101 posted on 06/05/2006 8:32:46 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: cryptical
"Only if you think it's good that the government decides what benefits employers provide to their workers..."

Employers base their benefit package on the legal definition of marriage. Some may allow gay partner benefits on Ins.

However, if the legal definition of marriage was removed, and anything goes, it will effect everyone.
102 posted on 06/05/2006 8:45:43 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Juan Williams....The DNC's "Crash test Dummy" for talking points.)
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To: Zhang Fei
The Bill of Rights doesn't argue anything. It assumes a whole bunch of stuff out of whole cloth. I happen to agree with most of what it assumes. But they are principles, not arguments.

What parts of the Bill of Rights do you disagree with?

103 posted on 06/05/2006 8:56:50 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: Beagle8U
However, if the legal definition of marriage was removed, and anything goes, it will effect everyone.

Some folks probably thought that about anti-miscegenation laws, and it looks like that's working out just fine.

Seriously, there are a number of companies that offer insurance for "domestic partners", and it hasn't affected benefits for traditional married couples that I can tell so I'll go out on a limb and venture a guess that insurance would be a non-issue if gay marriage was recognized by the government.

104 posted on 06/05/2006 9:17:19 AM PDT by cryptical (Wretched excess is just barely enough.)
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To: Mannaggia l'America
But now Joe Schmoe has no job. But he's addicted to (drug of choice). So where does Joe get money to feed his addiction? Can we say "crime"? (Oh wait, ending the WOD ended crime...)

It certainly lowers it.

Homicide Rates and Substance Control Policy

My research indicates that the theory of the primary cause of violent crime in the United States which is most consistent with the available data is a violent black market caused by the War on Drugs today, and Prohibition in the 1920’s.

...

Many economists, such as Milton Friedman (1991: 57) and William Niskanen (1992: 238), have argued that the Drug War is responsible for the United States’ crime problem. Bruce Benson et al. (1992: 679) performed a cross-sectional analysis of data from 67 Florida counties in 1986 and 1987 to determine if property crime is positively related to the intensity of drug enforcement activities. Harold Brumm et al. (1995: 509) examined data on 57 cities in 32 states in 1985 to determine if homicide rates are positively correlated with the percentage of a communities law enforcement resources that are devoted to the enforcement of drug laws. Both property crime and violent crime were determined to be positively correlated with the intensity of drug enforcement activities.

...

One possible theory for the correlation between the homicide rate and the substance control proxy is that homicides are caused by drug and alcohol use, and therefore homicides increase as drug and alcohol arrests increase. This theory does not explain the data.

Violence and the U.S. Prohibitions of Drugs and Alcohol(pdf)

This paper examines the relation between prohibitions and violence using the historical behavior of the homicide rate in the United States. The results document that increases in enforcement of drug and alcohol prohibition have been associated with increases in the homicide rate, and auxiliary evidence suggests this positive correlation reflects a causal effect of prohibition enforcement on homicide. Controlling for other potential determinants of the homicide rate -- the age composition of the population, the incarceration rate, economic conditions, gun availability, and the death penalty -- does not alter the conclusion that drug and alcohol prohibition have substantially raised the homicide rate in the United States over much of the past 100 years.

105 posted on 06/05/2006 11:15:21 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: cryptical
What started this debate wasn't domestic partners, or even gay marriage. Another poster had recommended totally removing any definition of marriage at all, just let any church determine what it is.

That is what I said would effect everyone.

I don't agree with many Libertarian positions on the issues, many I do. I don't want to argue them now.

There are major issues at hand right now that I think we do agree on, property rights!

The nominee for Secretary of Treasury (Paulson) is a big time property rights grabber, and if he is confirmed it could effect lots of thing people never dreamed of.

There is an active thread on FreeRepublic now about him and I would think anyone concerned with property rights should take time to read it.
106 posted on 06/05/2006 3:43:19 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Juan Williams....The DNC's "Crash test Dummy" for talking points.)
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To: skr
Unborn babies don't distinguish between legal or illegal drugs when it comes to physical harm. Neither do the others in vehicle accidents caused by intoxicated drivers.

So do you support banning alcohol? If not, why should we support the ban on other drugs?

107 posted on 06/05/2006 5:11:32 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: goldstategop; Protagoras
I would like that we could get along without government at all but in the real world that is just not possible.

Libertarians do not argue against the existence of government. Have any other straw men you'd like to beat?

108 posted on 06/05/2006 5:16:58 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Beagle8U
All moral laws are crimes with victims, even if its mostly those that commit them.

Self-"victimization" is not the proper business of government.

109 posted on 06/05/2006 5:19:40 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: flintsilver7
The abuse of drugs is a problem with drugs, not with prohibition.

But prohibition's enrichment of criminals, and the ills that exacerbates, is a problem with prohibition.

There is a reason things are done the way they are. Marijuana is where "the line" is drawn.

And what is the reason for that ... since marijuana is less addictive than alcohol, and unlike alcohol does not lead to fatal overdose nor increase violent behavior?

110 posted on 06/05/2006 5:23:28 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights
Actually, it's not a strawman. It's a deliberate attempt to deceive and misconstrue.

When these authoritarians cannot argue logically about concepts and ideas, they lie.

111 posted on 06/05/2006 6:51:01 PM PDT by Protagoras ("A real decision is measured by the fact that you have taken a new action"... Tony Robbins)
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To: Protagoras
I knew that. But then, you knew that I knew that. (But I'm glad you said it anyway.)
112 posted on 06/06/2006 3:03:08 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Beagle8U
"Does the small " l " party have a platform that anyone can look up to see what it is that they all believe in ?"

Actually it's the same as the big "L" platform until you press them into defending a particular plank of that platform. Then they become small "l" libertarians who agree with everything except that plank ... and maybe one or two others.

So, you can have 30 libertarians in a room, none of them supporting the same platform. And people wonder why the Libertarian Party is making no headway.

113 posted on 06/06/2006 3:22:35 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Beagle8U
the small " l " party

There is no 'small " l " party.' It's a philosophy (with room for disagreement about particular applications), not a party.

114 posted on 06/06/2006 3:28:22 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: rottndog
"Prohibition didn't and can't work for alcohol, prohibition isn't and can't work for drugs."

Given your assertion that both programs are "not working", it's hard to explain why Prohibition lasted only 13 short years yet drug prohibition has been going on for 70+ years with no end in sight. Every survey I've seen says that people don't want to change it.

You say drug prohibition "isn't working". What do you mean, "isn't working"? Are you saying that if we legalized all drugs, drug use would remain essentially the same?

115 posted on 06/06/2006 3:29:44 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Nice straw man.


116 posted on 06/06/2006 3:31:30 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: rolling_stone
"What will it cost if legal and where will he get the money for it then? LESS CRIME!"

I don't understand why this addict won't do the same amount of crime and buy more cheap drugs. Now that it's legal and cheap, he can shoot up twice a day instead of every other day.

I mean, when there's a sale at the grocery store, don't you stock up? If Pepsi's on sale, I buy more and drink more Pepsi. And I'm not an addict. Really.

117 posted on 06/06/2006 3:37:30 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Know your rights
"There is no 'small " l " party.' It's a philosophy (with room for disagreement about particular applications), not a party."

I had only ask because so many libertarians have said they don't agree with the platform.

Most of the issues they do agree on are the same ones that Republicans do.

Oh well, Its not my party and I'm not likely to fix it.
118 posted on 06/06/2006 3:40:57 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Juan Williams....The DNC's "Crash test Dummy" for talking points.)
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To: flintsilver7

Nice post, newbie.


119 posted on 06/06/2006 3:41:18 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Lorianne

There is very little he and I disagree on, actually. The war is the only one I've seen so far.


120 posted on 06/06/2006 3:42:52 PM PDT by RobRoy
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