Posted on 05/31/2006 11:02:15 AM PDT by pissant
The father of a U.S. Marine killed by a roadside bomb in western Iraq in November believes his son's comrades did nothing wrong despite a criminal investigation into events that left more than 20 Iraqi civilians dead, including women and children.
"It's very hard for me, I don't even listen to the news," Martin Terrazas said of reports of the mass killings in Haditha, in Iraq's Anbar province. "The insurgents were hiding in there with the kids."
Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas was killed when his military convoy hit a roadside bomb in the western Iraqi city of Haditha. Initial accounts from Marines indicated that a fight with insurgents ensued and that 15 civilians and eight insurgents were killed in the explosion and subsequent firefight.
But now, separate investigations seek to determine whether the Nov. 19 killings were criminal and whether the Marines involved and their commanding officers tried to hide the truth. The Pentagon has said little publicly.
The New York Times reported Wednesday that evidence uncovered in February and March contradicts the claims made by Marines about how the Iraqis died.
Citing an unnamed senior U.S. official, the Times reported that a review of the incident by Col. Gregory Watt in Baghdad has uncovered evidence that casts doubt on initial reports by Marines involved.
"There were enough inconsistencies that things didn't add up," the unnamed official said, according to the Times. The report cites death certificates that show all the Iraqi victims had been shot, many in the head and chest.
Luis Terrazas, the uncle of the Marine killed in Nov. attack and a former Marine himself, said Marines are trained not to lose their cool under pressure.
"Jarheads don't just go out and kill because they get frustrated," said Luis Terrazas, 39. "Their training is exquisite. It just doesn't make sense."
Martin Terrazas, who said he has met with many Marines from his son's unit, said the men didn't give him many details of the attack.
"They wouldn't go into details," Martin Terrazas said. "I just needed to know if my son suffered. They just said it wasn't a pretty sight."
The Marines also told the grieving father that they did what was necessary to survive.
"Hearing my son's comrades is very hard," Martin Terrazas said. "Those Marines just did their job. Some of these kids were saying, 'We have to live with it.'"
The parents of two Marines from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force based at Camp Pendleton in Calif. told The Associated Press that their sons were ordered to take pictures of the scene and help remove the bodies. The parents of Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones, 21, and Lance Cpl. Andrew Wright, 20, said memories of the killings have haunted the Marines.
Briones' mother said her son did not witness the killings. Wright's parents declined to say what their son saw that day.
Miguel Terrazas was in the midst of his second tour of duty in Iraq when he was killed. His family says he knew how dangerous his duty was, having survived an ambush during his first tour.
When he came home before his second deployment, the young Marine told his family not to worry.
"He said, 'No matter what...don't worry,'" Luis Terrazas said, fighting back tears.
This may be wrong of me, but even if happened as some have alleged, I'm not going to criticize their actions. It's possible for them to have a room full of suspected terrorists and/or family members in a submissive position, when one of them reaches for something. Maybe a weapon, maybe a dog. Two seconds later, they're all dead.
That was not a massacre. It was an unfortunate incident that had a logical cause.
I don't know...if you are a policeman, in a non-war zone..maybe you can make that strict pronouncement.
But, you do know these terrorists will put suicide belts on children under their clothes..don't you??
They also put "unarmed citizens" in cars, tape their foot to the gas...and send them into a crowd of troops with a bomb filled car...
I don't know HOW, in the war setting, that any military person can use that strict guideline...without being DEAD within weeks...
I am not talking about this incident....but, they put bombs in dead bodies...just waiting for the troops to come and get them...
They shoot from houses FULL of women and children...are the troops just supposed to ignore them?
I heard/read last night...that some Iraqi student with a video camera was sent in there by a Human rights group...
But, you know what...we don't know.
Supposedly two Marines took pictures from their own cameras and the cameras were confiscated by the military....
At this point, I think, every thing is speculation.
Briones isin a bit of legal trouble. 2 days after returning home, he stole a car, drove while intoxicated, resisted arrest and his Mama is crying post truamatic stress syndrome.
Everytime his name is mentioned, we need to put his name in context with his legal problems.
I didn't answer when I read the post in which you first asked this because I think you have mistaken something you've seen as live video of the incident.
The closest to LIVE that I've heard about is speculation that video taken by and unmanned drone that was in the vicinity may contain some evidence. I haven't seen that video or heard anymore than speculation.
I have seen the Iraqi video clip that Time (ABC?) obtained and used to alert the army, but that was the taken after the incident - showing bodies being moved, the inside of a house, etc.
I saw some video of a speeding car being shot, but it wasn't clear to me that it was part of the Haditha incident.
What video are you referring to? How do you know it was LIVE footage of the Haditha incident?
I didn't know that...thanks.
I saw his Mama on TV the other night...but had it muted.
A lot of returned vets kind of "go wild"...but, a lot of it is just blowing off steam...and the "invincibility" of having made it home from Iraq.
Unfortunately, what Briones did, the drinking and driving part...is probably not that uncommon. The stealing a car, that is another matter, IMHO<
Welcome home, Vietnam veteran!
>The cameras belonged to the Marines who went in after to clean up<
Then how did we get the picture of the lead vehicle blowing up on our television screens? And who confiscated their cameras?
Oh, I thought you meant how did the bodies with the so called bullet holes get on film, as some of the other posters were wondering. Sorry about that. I think the original incident was caught on film by an unmanned drone? I could be wrong about that. It's hard to keep this stuff straight and still try to get my job done.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060531/ts_nm/iraq_usa_haditha_dc;_ylt=AnI6FwzyXFBk6VXiSghaRUSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Do you have this one yet?
>and the cameras were confiscated by the military<
And why would the military then give the film to the media for heaven sake?
Has anyone else been listening to Michael Savage this afternoon?
Judging from reports this was not a case of civilians caught in the crossfire. This was a case where the marines went into houses and shot unarmed people. Men, women, and children who posed no threat to them whatsoever. If the official Marine investigation determines that this is, in fact, what happened then every man involved should be charged with multiple counts of murder. If convicted then I believe the sentence is death, and should be death. And that would be what they deserve. Regardless of the provocation you do not go around shooting unarmed civilians that pose no threat to you. It is against every rule of law that I'm aware of. These are supposed to be disciplined troops, not an armed mob. They know better, and if they did what they're accused of doing then they should pay the penalty for their deeds.
LOL...NO!
That man is an psychological mess....the few times I have tried to listen to him, I have been afraid he would "off" himself on air.
Besides, there is NO footage of the actual incident...there is after incident film...taken by some Iraqi or something.
What the Marines confiscated were the photo cameras from two of the Marines that allegedly didn't take part...
I've been reading it in the FR thread: Probe Finds Haditha Killings Unprovoked.
I'll put that thread up in the list. (available on my Profile page)
>How eo you know it was LIVE footage of the Haditha incident?<
I saw about three of our vehicles travelling one after the other on a dusty road when the lead vehicle was blown up (not just shot) and was instantly fully on fire. Then came the scenes of the bloody floors of nearby houses with the declaration that families had been wiped out by our Marines after the bombing.
Either this has been completely misrepresented, or our boys acted according the insurgent's habit of hiding in peoples's houses, even dressing as women. God bless our Marines all!
This was certainly presented as live footage of the incident by the narrator.
With respect....did you read my post??
I said in the post...that I wasn't discussing the incident that this thread is about..
I was just listing some of the tactics that are used...that the Marines are aware of...and have to worry about 24/7.
I don't know what happened that day..and YOU don't know what happened.
Oh? Then what did my lying eyes see on the news report?
>That man (Michael Savage) is an (sic) psychological mess<
That man loves his country and is old enough to remember what America was. Everything that has been going on the last few decades, especially the last several years, would cause high blood pressure to anyone with half a brain and a good memory, my friend.
I was just wondering the same thing.
.
.
I talked to a guy who survived an IED blast in a humvee near Mosul that blew the hummer 8 feet in the air, the driver was killed.
He said as the dust cleared they were surrounded by a mob of jeering taunting "civilians".....they knew the one who trippped the device must have been among them but they had to hold fire, even as they took incoming small arms fire.
Here is the source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/29/AR2006052900928.html
These are the LAST paragraphs in the article:
Drone's Video May Aid Marine Inquiry
Footage Shot on Day of Iraq Incident
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 30, 2006; Page A03
(excerpt)
Also yesterday, the Los Angeles Times reported that a Marine said he photographed at least 15 bodies after the attack, which he said he was not involved in. Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones, the first member of the unit to speak publicly about the incident, told the newspaper that after he took the pictures he helped remove bodies, including that of a young girl who had been shot in the head.
Briones indicated that since returning home to Hanford, Calif., he has suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from the corpses he saw and carried that day. "They ranged from little babies to adult males and females," the Times quoted him as saying.
Less than two days after coming home he was charged with stealing a pickup truck, leaving the scene of the accident, driving under the influence of alcohol and resisting arrest, the newspaper said.
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