Posted on 05/31/2006 6:20:21 AM PDT by Coop
I am now at the point where I don't care what the Marines did, if anything - I'm with them 100%! This is a different war where we are not fighting an enemy in a uniform. Our Marines and other military personnel are faced with extreme danger every day and they don't really know who would kill them and who wouldn't. As for politicians, like Murtha, and the MSM who are so quick to condemn our beloved Marines, I can only hope that someday a terrorist will want to chop off your head and there will be no Marine nearby to help you. In this WOT, we owe our American military a debt that can never be repaid!
> This war will never be won, if soldiers are relieved of duty for such things. For swearing????? Dear God.
Much as I agree with you in principle, it is Not A Good Idea to use foul language when being interviewed by the Press.
This information should not be released. There is no public "right to know" in wartime.
The above statement is correct. At least as is being alleged by the MSM.
IF the first report declared that the Iraqi civilians were killed by the IED than that was a blatant lie.
Some points to consider: I have not personally seen the first report and wonder who has. The statement made by the poster is what is being reported but have THEY seen this first report?
Second-According to the Time mag report, there was a SECOND IED explosion resulting from a grenade being lobbed into a house where gunfire was allegedly coming from. This grenade allegedly hit a propane tank and caused the tank to explode, killing all the people in that house.
Could the first report include this bit about the propane tank explosion and is being reported, erroneously, as "civilians killed by IED" as if the initial IED that killed the Marine ALSO killed the Iraqi civilians?
See...there's some very questionable data here and don't forget the Time article relied exclusively on what a 9 year old girl described and info from Haditha residents. Haditha residents who are very anti-American.
I think the military is trying to get drone pics or radio messages that plainly show someway or somehow that even AFTER the IED explosion that was on the road that there was gunfire coming from the houses. Because for the military to just say the Marine convoy was taking fire would be, well the military saying the Marine convoy was under fire. They are seeking some kind of physical proof.
If the Marine convoy had been hit by an IED and the Marines responded by willy-nilly going into nearby houses and shooting civilians in their homes, well that's very different from Marines going into homes to stop the gunfire.
There's more to this story than we know and already there's been more stories heaped on more stories. I don't think the administration can sit on this for a "couple of weeks" as proposed. This whole thing will blow up much like the "missing weapons of mass destruction" until no matter what the truth is, the constant speculation and Mainstream fuel will keep it from ever being believed.
What Murtha did, running onto to spitting Chrissie's show and salivating at being the first to put the words My Lai out there, is simply despicable.
Coop, you're my hero!
(put me on the Haditha ping list, please)
Also again, the hospital that did the autopsies is known as a terrorist haven.
Also, finally, a group called the Hammurabi Human Rights Group was the group that got a photographer inside that hospital. I don't know anything abou this Hammurabi (spelling might be off) but it's not like they were the Red Cross or anything.
Anybody left in Haditha during that Marine convoy was almost certainly part of the terrorist network working that town. Or do we all gather our family in the parlor to read the Koran when huge explosions and gunfire are going on around us?
And Iraqis are notorious smokers. Do they all have propane tanks INSIDE their homes? The original reporting of this incident was that the IED that set off the original explosion was somehow rigged to a propane tank. Which made the explosion and destruction all the worst.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't think that anyone is arguing that 'all' these people are innocent but you seem to think that the girl or at least her mother and father are guilty and paid the price. I don't see how.
This kid has spent most of her life in a Damoclesian hot seat. For at least the past three years her 'tribe' has been at war with us. Our troops are her family's enemy (at least in the only reality that she knows). To expect her to go against her entire world and its power structure is asking too much of a ten-twelve year old female in any culture, let alone a tribal, extremist, third-world culture where females are devalued. Same for her mother. Furthermore, you assume a freedom of mobility that might not exist for her family.
Hey, maybe her father made the bomb and her brother hit the trigger...but equally possible is thast she and her family are trapped in a hell that we cannot understand. There is not enough data for us to rule out either possibility.
As I said, I haven't seen this tape - is she speaking English?
I'd find that a little odd, a 10 year-old in Haditha speaking English to the CNN crew. But it could be.
Thank you! I could see the photo of the reporter and remembered reading the report, but had blanked out the cnn part. ;*)
No, this is through a translator (a human rights group who is against the war) also by a CNN reporter - Again it is on tape....it isn't a matter of crossing up her words..(that isn't the issue here)...she explicitly says she didn't leave for school that morning because she was aware of the bomb that was going to go off...and she even covered her ears in anticipation of the IED when it was about to go off - She knew there was an IED and she knew it was going to his this specific convoy of Marines coming.
Okay, but assuming that's all true, do you think that is justification for going in their homes and capping them?
As I said, it seem clear that a few Marines went looking for answers after this IED attack (and looks like they went in hard and heavy)- Did they take it too far?? That is being investigated. - Is it likely that some of these people were killed by indirect fire - Meaning the Marines for security reasons likely decided to fire into rooms or into ceilings prior to entering them. Again this is being investigated.
We know that the civilians of Haditha were repeatedly asked to leave the city (prior to this event) those that didn't too a large degree were supporting these insurgents (not all, but likely most).
I can also tell you that it is U.S. Marines and U.S. Soldiers that are dying for these kids and their families each and every day. Some of these very same people who won't as much say "boo" regarding a known IED being placed to kill our brave men.
The reality is, in war, people die. Both innocent people and those who deserve it.
Furthermore if these Marines did point blank execute small children they will be punished. If innocent children were killed by accident through indirect fire....then that is simply the ugliness of war.
But what appears clear is that these several children were very aware of a planted IED. That there families were aware that they were there. - They knew where it was and they waited in anticipation (covering her ears) when she knew it was going to go off (by either watching the Marines coming...or by watching the person / detonator of the LOS IED himself/herself).
Hey, maybe her father made the bomb and her brother hit the trigger...but equally possible is thast she and her family are trapped in a hell that we cannot understand. There is not enough data for us to rule out either possibility.
We are in a war here bud - Not the Oprah show - And "there but for the grace of God go I" can be said by billions of people each and every day (who are looking to give an excuse for evil people to do bad things)
Furthermore to suggest her mother would not be aware of what is happening within her household and within her family (extended even) is to show you don't understand the Iraqi culture - Their women (while tremendously undervalued in many ways) also have a firm control over all that goes on within their households and are a vast wealth of information (if willing to share it).
This girl was aware of this IED (it is very safe to assume her complete family within this home was aware of this IED). That makes them anything but innocent.
Furthermore the citizens of Haditha were asked to leave the city several times (prior) and thousands and thousands did just this - Those that didn't to a large degree were supportive of the insurgents (for their own reasons...right or wrong)...but we are at war with them. Additionally those that didn't leave and were not only aware of planted IEDs...but aware to the point of knowing exactly when they were going to go off (covering her ears) only that much more give credible evidence to the notion that this family was helping these insurgents.
The other thing that this POS may not realize, is that these kids are finished regardless of guilt or innocence. Their careers are over,
and they will be branded as war criminals
for the rest of their lives.
I thought we treated our own better then that.
Semper Fi
-NYLeatherneck
I think I am seeing this exact position / notion being made 24/7 by the MSM over and over again -
Regards,
How much you want to bet the Terrorists executed the people in the building, shot a few shots at the Marines, then ran. Then the Junk Media merely accepting the Terrorist PR machine's "Iraqi Civil Rights Group" accusations and propaganda without EVEN bothering to get the Marines side of the story.
How much you want to bet the Terrorists killed the civilians in the building, detonated the bomb then fired a few shots at the Marines.
Just taking the Terrorist "Iraqi Civil Rights" groups word and jumping to conclusions sure would be in keeping with the dozens and dozens of other fraudulent "News" stories we have seen over the last few years.
I suspect this PR attack on the Marines is just an attempt to pre-set the spin so when the Report comes out and it is NOT as harsh as the rumor mongers want, they can scream "Cover up".
Innocent until Prove Guilty? Or is that principal only for Democrats and those with the proper Leftist credentials.
Give the execution style slaying rumored to have happened. Sure sounds like a Terrorist "Staged Atrocity". Being "Holy Warriors" they always make their Muslim victims pray before murdering them. Shooting a woman and child at very close range while they knelt in prayer sounds EXACTLY like a Terrorist killing.
How much you want to bet the Terrorists killed the civilians in the building, detonated the bomb then fired a few shots at the Marines.
Just taking the Terrorist "Iraqi Civil Rights" groups word and jumping to conclusions sure would be in keeping with the dozens and dozens of other fraudulent "News" stories we have seen over the last few years.
I suspect this PR attack on the Marines is just an attempt to pre-set the spin so when the Report comes out and it is NOT as harsh as the rumor mongers want, they can scream "Cover up".
Sure playing out like a Terrorist Staged Atrocity
If you have US military out there rampaging and killing kids, then that wouldn't rate as "something that happened" like a stray bomb that went of course 100 feet.
I am not sure what the difference would be.
BTTT
I disagree, assuming they are guilty, that it is a big deal based on the rules of engagement.
The enemey is not playing using the rules of engagement. In my opinion, all bets are off.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.