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1 posted on 05/30/2006 2:40:20 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; FreedomPoster; Red Jones; Pyro7480; ...
[...]
America was founded on the concept – well understood by Alexander Hamilton and the other economic sophisticates among the founders – of a middle-class society, i.e. a society organized to minimize the number of people who constitute cheap labor. Cheap labor was the proletariat which drove Europe’s class-ridden and undemocratic politics, the nightmare of revolution and reaction America was founded to escape.

Contrary to libertarian myth, America’s economy was never, ever, based on a totally free market in labor. It was based on a labor market constricted by limited immigration and a small population relative to national resources, and a free market in everything else. This was designed to produce high wages. We have always been an explicitly high-wage nation relative to other societies, and this did not happen by accident. (This is the key story in Pat Buchanan’s book The Great Betrayal, and he is right about this, even if he is wrong about other things.)
[...]

2 posted on 05/30/2006 2:43:14 PM PDT by A. Pole (GWB believes that "guest worker" program will satisfy economy needs for cheap and plentiful labour.)
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To: A. Pole

Total population, population density or natural resources have absolutely nothing to do with total gdp or per capita gdp.

Let's take the US, Japan, and Canada vs. Russia, South Africa, Madagascar.

This article is crap. Besides, if you follow this argument, after we stop immigration, we should start self extermination to really get the per capita gdp numbers up.


5 posted on 05/30/2006 2:48:29 PM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: A. Pole

Hey Hey, Ho Ho, let's all start abortion NOW.


6 posted on 05/30/2006 2:50:51 PM PDT by staytrue (Moonbat conservatives-those who would rather have the democrats win.)
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To: A. Pole

Rush had a good segment on this today when he read an E-mail from a subscriber taking him to task for supporting NAFTA and free trade but not open borders. Articles like this help people see the difference between the free exchange of goods and the importation of cheap labor. Open borders don't equal free trade.

One aspect not mentioned by Rush was that there is a treaty regarding the exchange of goods but the exchange of labor is one way only. Its not possible for me or you to go to Mexico and get a job even if they have a crying need for our skills. Mexico has laws which prevent that.


7 posted on 05/30/2006 2:52:00 PM PDT by saganite (Billions and billions and billions-------and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: A. Pole
Cheap labor is not real capitalism, it is corporatism, for cheap labor is subsidized by the government, which ends up paying the health and welfare costs of these workers. All taxpayers bear the cost.

The riposte to those who regurgitate the WSJ dicta of "there shall be open borders".

Privatizing profit, socializing costs.

12 posted on 05/30/2006 3:10:37 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: A. Pole
the nightmare of revolution and reaction America was founded to escape. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And then the southern aristoicrats assured themselves of a cheap labor pool by instituting slavery.

Now modern aristocratic plantation owners of both liberal and conservative persuasion are now willing to sow the seeds of discontent which will blossom into a modern civil war, all for access to cheap labor from the historic equivalent of slaves and indentured servants. The black community in AMerica is against the immigration and amnesty of the senate bill. Ask yourself why? They are still trying to get over the last cheap labor assignation of the southern states, and now face a modern version of it.

Damn the senate and their neo-slavery. If immigrants come to this country they must be willing to assimilate and be free men and women. Any thing else just doesn't cut it!

Deport them wholesale and damn the modern aristocratic plantation owners. Enough already!

21 posted on 05/30/2006 3:17:01 PM PDT by Candor7
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To: A. Pole
Let’s get clear about one thing: there are no jobs that Americans “won’t do.”

As someone else on FR once pointed out, watch Fear Factor some time and that proves quite true.

22 posted on 05/30/2006 3:17:17 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: A. Pole

The analysis is largely correct, but the problem is that most Americans are now spoiled on very low retail and service prices and are not willing to pay more in order to provide those higher wages to American workers or legal immigrants. Employers are being squeezed by the global economy to force wages down any way they can, because it's the biggest cost they can actually control. It's pretty hard to blame them for lobbying for cheap labor. They can't pay workers more than what they can charge for their goods and services and make a reasonable profit. This is where free trade does matter, because all those factory jobs left for China, India, Bangladesh, and Mexico well before the current Mexican invasion happened. But what the hell, I can get a shirt for 10 bucks at Wal-Mart!


26 posted on 05/30/2006 3:20:52 PM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Control the borders. Control the spending. Confirm the judges. Win the War. -- Hugh Hewitt)
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To: A. Pole
If you offered me enough money, I would bus tables or clean bathrooms.

Hell yes - and not have the stress of corporate America? Hell yes!!!

27 posted on 05/30/2006 3:21:29 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (Why isn't there an "NRA" for the rest of my rights?)
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To: A. Pole

I don't get it.

This article makes the points that immigrants are less educated, and that Bill Gates supports immigration so that he can get cheap labor.

What kind of cheap labor does Bill Gates get from uneducated immigrants?

This guy is all over the place...nuts.

The more you pay for labor, the more it costs to produce an item, and the higher the price of that item.

What you earns means nothing, is what you can buy with what you earn that matters.


28 posted on 05/30/2006 3:25:38 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: A. Pole
Image hosted by Photobucket.com around here... it's a lumber mill and a couple of dairy farms.
31 posted on 05/30/2006 3:30:31 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: A. Pole
Who is the Cheap Labor Lobby?

... Consumers!

But it would be a good essay if he hadn't ignored the obvious. Most consumers are laborers too.

35 posted on 05/30/2006 3:34:38 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: A. Pole
Who is the Cheap Labor Lobby?

One group:
The fly-by-night roofing contractors using (presumably) illegals
in Mid-Missouri following the hail-storm damage of March.
44 posted on 05/30/2006 3:58:38 PM PDT by VOA
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read later


56 posted on 05/30/2006 4:39:40 PM PDT by rattrap
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To: A. Pole

I used to work for a large Wall Street investment banking firm. When downsizing took place in 2002, there were few American workers left in the IT support group thanks to the H-1B visa program. The majority of workers remaining in IT support are now foreigners on work visas. American workers were forced out in favor of cheap, easy to exploit foreign labor. Of course, a large portion of the savings went towards a huge bonus for the CEO and not back into the company.


58 posted on 05/30/2006 4:50:11 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: A. Pole
We used to have a commitment to a middle-class, bourgeois society.
We are importing a proletariat when we should be abolishing poverty.

Marxist buzzwords used to explain things. It's a sad day in America.
65 posted on 05/30/2006 5:19:01 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: A. Pole

Rarely have I seen a woman write with such intelligence about illegal immigration


69 posted on 05/30/2006 5:43:54 PM PDT by dennisw (We should return to calling them Muhammadans -- Worshippers of Muhammad and maybe Allah)
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To: A. Pole

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/job.html


81 posted on 05/30/2006 6:55:08 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Vincit Omnia Vertas- translation:Truth Conquers All.)
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To: A. Pole
"Cheap labor is not real capitalism, it is corporatism, for cheap labor is subsidized by the government..."

More precisely, its Corporate Socialism.
85 posted on 05/30/2006 7:19:13 PM PDT by indthkr
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To: A. Pole

There are at least two more alternatives if one does not import labor, one can do without or export jobs. Whichever one is more profitable.


87 posted on 05/30/2006 7:28:32 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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