On a Marine Base, Disbelief Over Charges

New York Times ^ | May 29, 2006 | Carolyn Marshall

[Peach]

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif., May 29 — In this "company town" where everything and everyone caters to the well-being of the Marine Corps, there is no shortage of people, both military and civilian, who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the troops accused of unjustified killings last November in Haditha, Iraq.

Relatives and neighbors gathered near the shrouded bodies of civilians said to have been killed by marines in Haditha, Iraq, in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30voices.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[wtc911]

Well, that's an interesting take.

[LS]

On the contrary, I would LOVE to be the judge that reads the verdict, "NOT GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS."

[Old Student]

"and thanks for the twenty years of your life spent in uniform..."

it was, literally, my pleasure and privilege.

[LS]

I'm talking of "preparing" the intellectual argument that is sure to come. Both Bush and Clinton mastered the art of getting ahead of the news. It was a good strategy. We should already be laying the groundwork---no matter what the verdict---that the reason the U.S. military is the greatest in history is that we are the ONLY ones who even investigate such claims; then prosecute; then, if necessary, carry out the judgments.

It is necessary to prepare so that the inevitable claim that this is "symbolic" of all soldiers/Marines doesn't even begin to get off the ground.

[higgmeister]

That's where this stuff gets surreal.

Did the GIs in Sicily sell their pictures to Life? Did Ernie Pyle write a column to let everyone know that the Pentagon said it looked bad?

I don't believe it is wise to be fodder for the Fifth Column of the Fourth Estate especially on Memorial Day USA.

This too is surreal.

[gogeo]

I think some Freepers are putting their heads in the sand, rather than realizing that what makes us GREAT is that when such atrocities occur with our fighting forces, WE identify it, WE prosecute it, WE try it, and WE address it.

Bogus premise. There's no contradiction between saying on the one hand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty...and if proven guilty, offenders should bear the consequences. If anything, I believe some Freepers are rushing to judgment, throwing Marines under the bus based upon media reports.

Why is it that willingness to assume the worst makes us great, but presumption of innocence does not?

[gogeo]

Thank you for your service.

[F.J. Mitchell]

Where ever the enemy draws the line.

[tioga]

Thanks, Peach. I love the letter - he sums things up quite nicely.

[LS]

Actually, some of the things and worse that you mention happened. The press did publish the fact that we had broken the MAGIC code, shortly after Midway.

That's not the point. Almost every Marine or soldier I talk to, including many back from Iraq, emphasize that they are fighting for the rights of a free society---yes, even for that idiot Murtha to speak.

PART of the duty and obligation of those rights is that we NOT cover up or ignore genuine atrocities or violations of the code of military justice.

Care to see Gen. Michael Hagee said, obliquely referring to this issue?

"To a Marine, honor is more than just honesty; it means having uncompromising personal integrity and being accountable for all actions. To most Marines, the most difficult part of courage is not the raw physical courage that we have seen so often on today’s battlefield. It is rather the moral courage to do the “right thing” in the face of danger or pressure from other Marines.

[LS]

You apparently missed the gist of the whole post: word is now circulating by Pentagon sources to CONSERVATIVES that there is something to this investigation. The investigation is finished---they are now deciding on charges, etc. So it's not a bogus premise at all.

[F.J. Mitchell]

Fair is fair.

[Liberty Valance]

"Many facts that are favorable to the Marines involved have not yet been disclosed."

Thanks for that quote Peach. I shall wait for justice to run it's course. Being smeared, tried and convicted in the press is a modern day leftist ideal.

[gogeo]

You didn't address what I said-nothing has been alleged or proven. Our Marines deserve the benefit of the doubt, don't they, against unnamed sources quoted in the NY Times and USA Today?

That's not sticking one's head in the sand, whereas I would describe the opposite as having one's head stuck somewhere else.

Nothing wrong with waiting for the actual report and reading it, for starters, is there?

[F.J. Mitchell]

I pray that we will hear a Judge say exactly that. One would probably have to be present in court to hear it though, somehow I see the MSM being totally silent in such an event.

[Inverse]

That sounds good in theory.
However what does that exactly mean doing?

If it means that we should just gather data to support the fact that we get rid of our bad apples, that is fine.
If it means judging our troops guilty before the trial you can count me out.

I am sorry but that is what it sounds like you are recommending.

The claim that ALL our troops do this will be spouted by every liberal, and by everyone who has an axe to grind against the USA.

The actual facts of the case will not stop them in the least.

[DCPatriot]

Of course I share the same sentiments as you do regarding our military. God Bless them and keep them safe.

I just think you're not being objective about this.

[edpc]

Well, at least we agree on one thing....I am not objective. Given the agenda-driven coverage of the story, I am not inclined to be. Just because something could happen outside the norm doesn't mean I have to accept it on face value. That's especially true when other similar attempts to undercut the military have been exposed.

[LS]

Absolutely not. Neither is there any sense in denying what APPEARS to be very likely, that at least one Marine will be charged. (My guess, just working from the assumption that usually it's only one individual, not a group, that "loses control," but likewise that comrades will rally around to protect their buddy: one guy engaged in some unacceptable activities, and one witnessed, but said nothing at first, and a couple knew about it second-hand, but said nothing).

Again, though, my "source" wasn't NY TImes: it was Laura Ingraham quoting her sources in the Pentagon.

[LS]

"The claim that all our troops do this . . ."

. . . is exactly why we need to prepare for the worst, and lay down a pre-emptive barrage. I know it sounds trite, but this was the essence of Clinton "spin." You go on offense, expect the worst, so when it's not quite so bad, you can say, "See---all the hubbub for nothing."

I'm not being flippant. BTW, my cuz, active USMC, shares my view that it was likely one or two guys.