On a Marine Base, Disbelief Over Charges

New York Times ^ | May 29, 2006 | Carolyn Marshall

[Peach]

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif., May 29 — In this "company town" where everything and everyone caters to the well-being of the Marine Corps, there is no shortage of people, both military and civilian, who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the troops accused of unjustified killings last November in Haditha, Iraq.

Relatives and neighbors gathered near the shrouded bodies of civilians said to have been killed by marines in Haditha, Iraq, in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30voices.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Coop]

Give 'em enough rope...

[Old Student]

"And I notice the left didn't mind that Clinton's campaign in Kosovo fought from 25,000 feet in the air killed thousands and thousands of innocent civilians."

Most people don't seem to understand that even "precision-guided munitions" aren't all that precise. You drop a 500lb bomb, it's going to take out most everything within about 200-2000 feet of it, depending on how deep it penetrates before exploding. My guys tried their best to put the stuff where it was supposed to go, but even duds can kill people off-target. The only real precision-guided munition is a knife in a soldier's (or Marine's) hand. Then you've got a pretty fair chance that only the intended victim dies.

[Arrowhead1952]

I happened to see this comment

***One poster's reaction was to "nuke the Middle East" adding "thank you very much Dishonourable Rep. Jack Murtha". He was later to write "if you can't stand behind our troops, stand in front of them". ***

in the latest rant by Ms. Heard on this thread and found the original post. Great line and I'd dare Murtha to get in front of any armed Marine today.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1640317/posts

[NYleatherneck]

He doesn't rate a bullet...

[NYleatherneck]

He doesn't rate a bullet...

[NYleatherneck]

He doesn't rate a bullet...

[Peach]

Hi, Miss Edie.

The Marine who wrote that he was charged (and later cleared) of premeditated murder in Iraq isn't me; those were his words and there is great confusion because I didn't put his words in italics.

Sorry for the mistake.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

Son, flip the selector switch on the "Post" button to SEMI, OK?

[ContemptofCourt]

Give 'em enough rope...

I dunno...seems more effective to just, gosh, i dunno, post a source which supports a fact.

[Old Student]

"If the Corps decides that there is not enough to move forward legally then that's good enough for me...case closed."

If they do decide there is enough to move forward legally, they still have to convince the jury, too. Lt. Pantano's case, for example. They did bring charges against him, and got shot down by the evidence. Having that evidence presented in court was his best chance of not being forever seen as the monster he was painted by the prosecution. That is probably the best thing for these guys, too, especially if they are innocent, as I hope.

[Your Nightmare]

First, this "journalist", Carolyn Marshall should know that M is capitalized in Marine.

Just a point of fact (or style, really), the generic marine would be lowercased, the specific Marine Corps would be capitalized. So, "you are a marine in the Marine Corps."

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[jazusamo]

Thanks for posting the link to the letter from Marine Lt. Pantano, it's an excellent example of why no one should should be quick to fall in with the likes of Murtha, especially those here at FR.

Here's the entire letter, I believe it's worth posting again.

Mr. Murtha's Rush to Judgment

Sunday, May 28, 2006; B06

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq. My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me ["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].
So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20]. Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence. The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report.

Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this." Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes

Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times. Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

ILARIO PANTANO
Jacksonville, N.C.

The writer served as a Marine enlisted man in the Persian Gulf War and most recently as a platoon commander in Iraq.
© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[F.J. Mitchell]

For a lot of those two hundred years, our enemies proudly wore uniforms that helped us to determine who was the soldier and who was the civilian. In those days the enemy, as evil as some have been, left the civilian women and children far behind the field of battle, and never used them as weapons to beguile and murder our troops. They never used the innocent as human shields.

Those days are gone forever, and until we the USA wise up to that fact, our rules, regulations, and such shit, is guaranteeing the loss of way too many of our troops than need be.

I am for as many of our heroes as possible, coming home alive and able to hear our expressions of praise and respect on the days that we honor them. May those heroes who die on the battle field, never perish because of our stupid belief that wars can be regulated by rules, like a frigging football game.

[NYleatherneck]

Sorry about that... Spastic trigger finger.

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"...if you were a pro-Patton reporter who was told by the General to "expect the worst" prior to the verdict..."

That the unnamed sources are generals, or colonels, or anyone with credibility for that matter is a big, assumption and that you make that leap shows where you stand on the issue.

Michael Frazier

[CedarDave]

On a more basic level, it is about power and influence.

It's not news that they are arrogant and disdainful of us "little people" especially at the White House. David Gregory is only the most obvious manifestation of the attitude. And they compete amongst themselves to see who can best trick, trip up or otherwise get the best of the press secretary. Tony Snow is probably the best PS to have right now to respond to their attacks.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

So, what are you advocating, exactly? That Marines and soldiers be allowed to visit some "street justice" on anyone unfortunate enough to be nearby when they're attacked?

[Peach]

It's an important letter to read, but please know that on Sunday, we asked for the mods the weigh in on whether a letter to the editor can be published in its entirety from the Washington Post; they said no.

[kellynla]

When referring to a United States Marine which this "journalist" in the NYT is referring, Marine is capitalized. PERIOD!