Posted on 05/24/2006 7:26:06 PM PDT by arnoldpalmerfan
Yesterday, Rep. Mike Pence, whom I generally like and agree with, offered his personal plan for legalizing illegal aliens as "the guest-worker plan that conservatives should embrace." But it is not. There is very little about it that is substantially different from a dozen other plans, except that it is a conservative proposing the "compromise" in this case.
And that is precisely why I believe that Pence's plan is more dangerous than the other legalization schemes -- because it will not be subjected to the same level of skepticism and examination as a compromise produced by Senators Kennedy or McCain or Reid. It is thus more likely to be actually passed by the House in the name of "doing something" on immigration before voters boot its members from office for what they’ve already been doing on immigration. Pence’s position within the conservative movement has served to immunize the proposal from most attacks, but should it be so immune? You be the judge.
In a nutshell, the plan is to allow the 12 million immigration criminals already in America to become legal guest workers, and to remain in the country doing the proverbial jobs that "no American will do" (for the same low wages.) That's it. That's the big "outside the box" idea conservatives should allegedly embrace. Rep. Pence, however, claims that his idea is not like the others because of two important details.
(Excerpt) Read more at humaneventsonline.com ...
This would be a good article if Pence was actually proposing amnesty. He absolutley destroyed Hannity and was beginning to get angry with Hannity's inability to comprehend a simple bill.
I think you are right.
Then they may just have to sit in Mexico a while longer.
At one point he subtly cracked Hannity over the head with his "Sean, you should run for Senate because of your ability to filibuster" comment...making note of Hannity's taking up debating/interviewing time by not allowing Rep. Pence to get in rebuttals and by saying the same thing over and over while making very little sense.
Pence's plan needs to be shot down quickly.
I hope he comes to his senses on this issue soon. It's a real black mark on a record that is otherwise A-1.
Read the Pence Plan. Unless I am missing something, Pence DOES provide a path to citizenship for the illegals in the US and for new "guest workers" down the road. His "no amnesty" plan plays the same word games as RINOS in the Senate. In the Pence plan, the illegals just go out of the country for a week (with a gauranteed right to return) and come back on a path to citizenship.
"Guest workers will be allowed to renew their W Visas, but only for a period of up to six years. At that point, the guest should decide whether to return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship."
He is also turning over the screening process to the employers and taking it away from the USG.
Actually, no, they have to leave in order to apply, so that means they are punished at least with continued illegal status until they go back and do it right. And if we catch them here illegally, they will be deported.
Meanwhile, the other people who have been doing it right all along will be ahead of them in line. This is vastly different from the SEnate plan.
There's a difference between "amnesty for doing something wrong" and just "not getting caught doing it." Most illegals would fall in the second category.
There are too many exceptions.
Even today, a felony exclusion can be waived.
The only way to save this bill is to
1. eliminate ALL the parts rewarding the illegals in this country.
2. eliminate the ability for the illegals to bring in more of their family. (seriously by brining their own elderly into the USA they will take social sec benefits from seniors in this country.)
3. Eliminate citizenship by birth for those born of illegals OR overstay illegals.
4. Non-convertability of visas means NONconvertable. It does not mean file an additional form.
5. A fine for citizenship in the United States of America is not $2,000. $2,000 for USA citizenship is a convenience fee.
BTW eventually they will waive the leaving requirement and allow them to wait in the usa for a visa.
THIS WILL BE AN EVEN BIGGER MAGNATE!
They go away for a week with a guaranteed right of return. Moreover, the illegals go to the head of the line. There are more than 6 million people now waiting overseas in line for their turn to come in. They have been waiting in line for years. The illegals can come back within a week. Is that fair? Pence's plan is a fig leaf. They are not doing it the right way.
Besides being unworkable from a logistical standpoint, the private sector takes over the screening process.
And if we catch them here illegally, they will be deported.
Yeah right, like they are now. We have laws on the books that allow us to deport illegals. Do you really believe that enforcement is going to be better? They tried that scam in 1986.
Actually, Pence's plan is the only one I have heard that says that an illegal must leave the country first and re-apply to come in. Personally, I think that's a great idea.
You are missing something.reread the Bill.NO citizenship.period
No citizenship! read the bill!
The most ignorant of history on these boards are the OBLers. A concept that has never worked.
Oh that's right, this generation of attempted implementers are going to do it right this time. Sounds like a Hillary rant.
What bill are you referring to? The Pence plan contains the following on citizenship for illegals and his "rational middle ground between amnesty and mass deportations." :
Allowing 12 million illegal aliens to stay in our country instead of leaving and coming back legally is amnesty, no matter if fines or back taxes are paid, or how it is otherwise dressed-up or spun by its proponents. The only way to deal with these twelve million people is to insist that they leave the country and come back legally if they have a job awaiting them.
Therefore, the solution is to set up a system that will encourage illegal aliens to self-deport and come back legally as guest workers...Private worker placement agencies that we could call "Ellis Island Centers" will be licensed by the federal government to match willing guest workers with jobs in America that employers cannot fill with American workers.
Outside of the United States. That is a key point because it is the provision that will require the 12 million illegal aliens to leave. Now, some of you are thinking to yourselves that twelve million people aren't going to pack up and leave just to get a visa to come back legally. But, I believe most will. [Note: only 60% of the illegals are from Mexico]
The process that I just described to you will only take a matter of one week, or less. That is the beauty of the program. Speed is so important. No employer in America wants to lose employees for an extended amount of time. No worker who is earning money to feed and clothe a family can afford to be off the job for long.
Let me give you a few other details on the guest worker program. The visas will be referred to as "W Visas." (No kidding.) I think it is obvious whose support we are trying to garner here. Seriously, the W Visa results from a fortuitous instance of bill drafting. The code already has visa categories for letters A through V, so W is the next open letter. The W Visa, without amnesty, would be the real rational middle ground that the President has called our nation to in this debate.
There also will be a limit on the amount of time a guest worker can spend in America. Guest workers will be allowed to renew their W Visas, but only for a period of up to six years. At that point, the guest should decide whether to return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship.
Workers will be allowed to change jobs within a certain time period without having to leave the country. No worker will be trapped in a job with an abusive employer.
Pence is really giving the guest workers the option of deciding whether they want to "return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship." This "or" means they can stay here and apply for citizenship. This is amnesty using the smokescreen of being out of the country for a week.
Allowing the 12 million illegals to leave for a week and come back into the US with legal status and go back to work is patently unfair to the millions overseas who are waiting in line to enter the country legally. Many have been in these lines for two to five years.
No.They would have to enter the SEPERATE process of citizenship.They would have to do it at the back of the line(meaning they would have to go home or get asylum)Current immigration laws would deal with that.Pence's plan is distinctly SEPERATE.Please reread the bill slowly.I think you will start to get it.
You are mistaken.
Pence's bill only gives guest worker after they have returned home and he gives them no path to citizenship.The author is lying to you.
Pence's bill will do the following
1 Pass HR 4437
2 The border will be secured
3 Interior laws will be enforced
4 NO path to citizenship will be granted
5 Anchor baby citizenship will end
6 Removes all 10 to 12 million illegal aliens for United States
7 There will no longer be “undocumented workers”
8 Private Sector
9 Secures the border first.
10 We will control our border
more on this later.Read the whole speech before you make up your mind
http://mikepence.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=44113
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